Hello! I've decided that I DO want to pursue CCing, but am still with questions...

I know what encap is and the benefits of it especially on commercial, BUT it what about residential? How does it work with different carpets? Do you merely encap or padcap? If possible, list the, if any, types of carpets that you should not encap and the different ways if any you should do the encap on resi depending on carpet types. I've been looking at the ccsop packages. Also, please sell me on THIS package versus if you would.

Thanks!

Encapping simply means that whatever residue you leave in the carpet when you're finished cleaning it, will be more likely to break up into tiny dust-like particles. Some of these particles - such as from walking on the carpet - will fall harmlessly to the base of the carpet, and, when the carpet is next vacuumed, most of them will be sucked up. Some particles with invisibly cling to the carpet fibers until they get whacked by some part of a vacuum cleaner, and will be removed from the carpet at that time directly via suction. The less residue that remains attached to the carpet fibers, the more slowly resoiling will occur. Your customers will love you for this, will call you back the next time, and will tell their friends that your method works better than what they used before, when resoiling occurred fairly quickly. I can't think of any particular type of carpet that i would hesitate to use an encap cleaner on.

I encap all my commercial jobs (with non-absorbent or semi-absorbent pads), them go back to any especially soiled areas, and go over them again with absorbent pads to lighten them up. Heavily soiled areas, when scrubbed with ONLY non-absorbent pads, MAY not pass the inspection of particularly fussy customers, either commercial or residential. So I believe selectively taking the extra step is just good business.

Why to buy this particular package. I feel it's a particularly good value for the money, especially as it includes a stair cleaning tool that you will enjoy using. A second reason? When you come to this Forum, you won't be subjected to all of the one-sided and sometimes vicious political and religious name-calling that, when I last visited, seemed to pervade the other Forum you mentioned. Here I try to stick to business, and leave all that other stuff to radio talk show hosts with an ax to grind.

Jon,
The challenger is a wonderfull machine, and the watson's run a good company. But I do get most of my supplies from ccs and they run a good company also. If your choice boils down to price, then like Mark said you will get a good value with the challenger.

I don't know when the last time Mark vistited the ccs board? I have gone there almost every day for the last 2 years, and never saw anything close to what Mark stated. I get wonderfull service and support from ccs, Bolth ccs and challenger are good company's IMO.

I found it so unpleasant there some time ago that I stopped dropping in there. Just my being from Massachusetts made me a target of ultra right wing attacks from "Padman" and those who like that "us vs. them" stuff. Let alone that I might actually offer an opinion of my own that was not in lockstep with the group-think mentality that prevailed there at that time. Maybe John finally realized stuff like that is not good for business. Although, when he came onto this Forum earlier this year, promoting CCS products under an assumed name (as he had done a number of times previously) he and his wife were still spouting all that crazy stuff expressly at me. You can go and read it. I don't think I ever deleted it. In the end, when it turned out that he was "outed" and shown to be the one in the wrong, he even apologised to me for trying to portray me as a liar. I think that might have been a first.

I think Andy is referring to "padderland" which is a padders only carpet cleaning BB. No political talk there, never was.

I think Mark is referring to the Blue Board, also run by Padman. These days that board is basically a political forum for carpet cleaners. Let's just say if you like Obama you might want to wear some body armor before visiting that site.

As for encapping residential, I find it somewhat unethical to call it "carpet cleaning" unless it is fully disclosed to the customer how the process works and either you return the next day to vacuum or it is explained to the customer that they NEED to--as the carpet has not in fact been CLEANED until the post-vac.

If not explained, customers expect that their carpet is clean, and many won't vacuum again for weeks, allowing encapsulated polymers to become airborne and breathed in (not good esp. if you call yourself a "green" cleaner), or fall down to the base of the carpet or even work itself down to the pad where vacuums cannot get to it.

If you just put a pad on your OP machine you are removing the bulk of the soil, with the added benefit that some additional soil may be removed by future vacuuming, and possibly some measure of soil resistance added to the carpet.

Great Thanks! So if I use a pad and encap, then I WILL actually clean and the customer will have "some" added benefit of the encapsulation as long as they understand that a good vacuuming should be done after "cleaning". Sounds like a selling point to customers. Added product/service to sell similar to scotchguard? Perhaps a couple pennies extra per sqft for encap/padcapping? what ya think?

By the way, I appreciate the replies and comments!

Thank you to Grant for clearing up the matter of the 2 boards. I was not aware of this. It was about 5 years ago when I became aware of a CCS board. It was a combination of straight c.c. stuff and a very heavy dose of far right, Christian fundamentalist zealotry. Since I am more of a centrist, and begged to differ a few times with the general tone of the place on a few issues, I was fair game for attack. As the election of 4 years ago neared, the attacks on John Kerry were relentless and to my mind bordered on the irresponsible and maybe even criminal (Kerry's head on a shooting target, for example.) Like the senator, I am also a Navy Vietnam vet who came to believe that our war there was a very big mistake, and also took part in VVAW (Vietnam Veterans Against the War) activities. I eventually became tired of all the abuse and vitriol at the CCSOP board, and stopped visiting that forum. I believe I was also banned, as I tried one time later to log on, and was unable to do so. I'm guessing that the 2 board arrangement began some time between then and now, although I really don't know for sure. Perhaps there were 2 boards all along, and I just happened on to the one where dissenting opinions were not tolerated, and where those offering those opinions were quickly demonized.

With regard, Jon, to the matter of "selling" you on my package: The Guerkink machines are manufactured by Orbitec aka Orbital Technology (www.orbitecsolutions.com) I sell these machines as well as Challengers. If you purchase any one of their machines as part of my Package, substituting it for the Challenger, I discount it 10% from the prices on the Orbitec website. As to the question whether there are any differences between these machines as shown on the CCSOP site and the Orbitec site, I suggest that you pose these type questions to Orbitec owner Clark Lancaster. He can be reached by phone at 800-528-1376, and by e-mail at clark@carpetcaresolutions.com.

Yeah Mark I think the Padderland board started maybe 3 years ago or thereabouts??

Mark said..
"In the end, when it turned out that he was "outed" and shown to be the one in the wrong, he even apologised to me for trying to portray me as a liar. I think that might have been a first."

Mark,
From my point of view you were both wrong.
John came to realize that you were in fact authorized by Clark to sell orbitec machines, when he realized this he did the right thing and apologized.

You were also wrong in telling people that ccs machines were the same as orbitec machines, with the implication that if one wanted a ccs machine you could sell it to them. In fact, That's what started the whole thing. In the end John apologized and you did not.
I don't want to start a problem, I just think it's fair to point this out. In other words, there's always to sides to a pancake.

Grant,

With regards to this comment, "allowing encapsulated polymers to become airborne".

I posed that question to Steve Smith or Clark Lancaster on Pro Cleaners network, I don't recall which one those guys it was.
I asked if the encapsulated dirt can be shattered by foot traffic and become airborne and the response was "No".
If you're customer has allergies or chemical sensitivities, I think its best to avoid Encap juice. They may have a reaction while you're spraying it down or later when they are vacuuming the encapsulated soil.
The MSDS sheets for the encap products from Vacakway or Excellent supply don't mention polymers, it is either left out or proprietary (did I miss it?).
So they don't say it's in there and we don't know what the chemical make up of the polymer is. Is it a synthetic or natural polymer?

To Andy: I don't want to keep beating a dead horse on this subject, but according to what I consider the source of the most impartial information I've ever gotten on this subject - Clark Lancaster - who actually builds all of these machines - they ARE all the same. So that's why I don't think I have anything to apologise for. I even gave you Clark's phone number and e-mail address so that YOU could contact him, and raise the same question that I did back during that go-round on that subject. Nor has it ever been my business policy to go onto other companies' boards under a made-up identity, promoting Challenger products, OR, to in any way disparage other companies' product lines. I certainly AM ready to offer an apology if I have somehow misunderstood what Clark explained to me, and if I have inadvertently passed along incorrect information to others via posts on this Forum.

To Jon: on the question as whether or not to charge a little more for encap cleaning. I'm not sure that I would, as then you might have to get into a discussion re. the issue of leaving a cleaning solution & soil residue in the carpet when you use a non-encapsulating product. And that you are charging more for using a product which doesn't do this, since it crystallizes and vacuums out. I would keep it simple, and just charge whatever your rate is for whatever kind of carpet it is you are cleaning (wall-to-wall, area rugs, or carpeted stairs) Before the availability of Vacaway's Encap-Green, on commercial jobs I would offer a lower rate for encap (using a non-bio-based product) and a higher rate for the same job performed with a non-encapping bio-based product.
My reasoning was that if I was encapping, I could do the job faster. Just scrub & run. No stopping to turn and replace absorbent pads. The natural products I was using then, such as Bioforce's OUTSOLVE or Challenger's ORBIT NATURAL, would require stopping frequently to turn and replace absorbent pads. Hence the natural job would take longer. Now I can offer encap AND bio-based combined, so I only offer one price.

There is a differance between Clark's machine and john's machine, and the diffrence is Clark's machines has no wooden brush,he has a drive plate only, and John's machines have wooden drive brushes. The other thing is that John's machines spin faster, because of different counter weights, but Clark said you can't tell, if they were running sise by side.

Tom

Tom, it's good to have another industry "insider" offer a take on this matter. So, according to your version, Clark DOES build machines for J.G. with some differences in design, but for whatever reason chooses not to clarify this when the question is posed to him. I'm sure he has his reasons, so I won't second guess him on this. And if this truly IS the case, then I do indeed owe John G an apology, while still maintaining that I did not KNOWINGLY put out an incorrect version of events. But you say that Clark says that, despite the technical differences, you can't tell the difference when the machines are operating side by side. I would not be surprised, however, if John G. begs to differ on this assertion.
At this point I am going to leave this question of relative machine performance to the uber-experts of the OP field. The whole matter is starting to sound like trying to determine how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, if I may borrow here from the field of theology.

Mark, what Jeff and I understand from Clark at last years at Mikey's fest is John G. likes the brush method better than the drive plate, and that's O.K.. Clark, Challenger and HOS have gone to the drive plate. We all make excellent O.P.'s. I'm not going to argue who machines are better, it's up to the custumer.

Tom

Mark, you do not need to apology to anybody, we are all big boys. Do Jeff and I want a apology from John for all the things said about us, heck no. John is a good guy and so was his dad, who I new very well and is missed. John has called us at the office a few times and had some good talks. I like coming on your board and just reading about what the guys are saying. We do not go and talk on the boards to much. DON"T FORGET TO VOTE TODAY.
Tom

I have wandered around Mikey's board, Paddlander and this forum.

I appreciate the openness and the civility of this forum.

I have learned from all the boards. The problem is the more I learn the more I forget. The joy of that is I get to relearn it and think I learned something.

I only use encap on residential, all of my customers love it, and I use it's ability to encap while driving as a selling point, I was weary before when using only Orbit natural as I figured that the carpet was looking very nice, but could understand that all of the soil may not transfer to the cotton pad, but thanks to padcapping, which means just simply using the cotton pads and the encap cleaner, I don't hesitate to let my customers know that their carpets will be clean as can be after the cleaning, once you start you will realize that their really are a lot of horrible steam cleaners out there, and that both methods have their drawbacks, but lucky for you, you were not scared to try something different than what everyone else is doing, good luck, and I don't know anything about ccs, but I also agree that the Challenger and their company are a great deal, offering help when needed, and I personally only use Vacaway products to keep things simple, and the owner Steve is very helpful when you run into sticky situations.

Brandon - I'm trying to figure out how using Orbit Natural tired you out - made you weary, as you said.
???

So do I understand correctly that there is not an encapping natural product? I'm considering cc and am trying to understand the processes?
Thanks, Melanie

Encap-Green from Vacaway is the closest I've found
www.vacaway.com)

I may have misspoke, I didn't mean it tired me out, I am just personally more comfortable offering encap to my customers, because they are able to see the immediate difference, and I know that any soil that didn't transfer to the cotton pad will be encapsulated and they can vacuum it afterwards, using orbit natural gets great results, I just assume that encap will make the carpet cleaner, plus it is a great selling point, people like to hear about how it works, and in a lot of situations I would gladly vacuum afterwards, but if the customer is fine with letting it dry first in order to encapsulate, then it save me the time of a post vac in most cases, and allows me to keep my prices competitive.