I am trying to get my Wizard powermatic running and am i having the big problem of the motor not starting. I purchased new spark plugs, cleaned it up, changed the oil, etc. I am wondering if maybe i am not running the fuel line correctly, (right now i am just using a 3/8 hose with a primer bulb with the other end of the hose just placed inside a gas tank) or if there is something else that may be preventing it from starting. Any suggestions would be helpful. Also, i am unable to find exactly what type of gas is used in this motor, so if anyone could help me out i would greatly appreciate it.
First, the gas/oil mix is 24:1 (use TCW3 oil).
As fas as starting, there could be a number of contributing factors, but I would start easy first. Likely culprits are the breaker points under the flywheel. Pop the flywheel (let me know if you need instructions), and remove the points, and with a very fine (400 grit) sand paper, file the points until they are nice and shiny (then clean them off with electrical contact clean to remove any grit). Place them back and gap them (the spec is either 0.018 or 0.020 at their widest...check the gap before you remove them).
There is a good chance that could be part of your problem. With the flywheel off, inspect the coils. If the outer plastic coating is cracked, then they need to be replaced.
If it is starting but runs poorly, your carburetor could need a good cleaning, too, as well as setting the high speed and low idle. Worst case scenario is that you low compression in the cylinders, which would make it difficult to start and would also mean that it would run poorly.
Post a little more detail on how it is running, and then we can try to isolated the problem. Either way, giving the points a good cleaning would be a good thing to do, and it may solve your problem. I can send you pictures of my WH6 Super 5 magneto if you have any questions about the ignition components under the flywheel.
As a follow-on to my last email, if your flywheel says it was made by Phelon (should be inscribed in the top pf the flywheel), the points are gapped at 0.020. If it is a Bendix Scintilla magneto, then they are gapped at 0.018.
It should be a Phelon.
Thank you very much! The motor hasnt been ran in 30 years and the guy that i bought it from said it was running good when last used, it was stored correctly as well.
Ill give that a try and let you know how it goes.
Great....keep me posted. I have a feeling you are going to find coils that are in bad shape (I hope am wrong). The points can be salvaged easily like I described, but if those coils are cracked, you'll have to replace them. The Powermatic 15 is the cousin to the Mercury Mark 25. If you need parts, here is a great resource:
The parts aren't cheap, but at least you can still get them brand new. To get the flywheel of, use a cheap harmonic balancer puller (~$10-$15 at any auto store), and you'll need 1/4-20 Grade 8 bolts (3 of them)to fit into the holes on the top of the flywheel.
We got the flywheel off and the coils were badly cracked. It is a Bendix Flywheel. Im pretty sure I need to buy the 399-125 coil but the coils that are broken have the spark plug wire attached to the bottom of it. Does the spark plug wire attach to the silver loop on the new coils? Also, do you think we need to buy new condensers?
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Well, it looks like you found your problem. My Wizard has the Phelon coils, but I assume that the Bendix coils are the same when it comes to the wires. There should be a port on the bottom side of each coil where the end of the spark plug wires are pushed in to. Before you insert the new spark plug wires, apply a little dielectric grease in the holes before you push the spark plug wires in. This will prevent any potential arcing.
Personally, since you have to go to the expense of replacing the coils, I would put in new condensers, too. They are relatively cheap compared to the coils (those darn Bendix coils are really expensive!), and since you've got the flywheel off, why not get the ignition updated so you don't have to pop that flywheel anytime too soon. You can test the existing condensers with a voltage meter, if you have one, in case you want to try and salvage them. The points look pretty good, so I would just give them a light sanding and they should be fine.
All-in-all, it looks pretty clean. I cleaned the stator plate on mine with electrical cleaner before I installed the new components. Since you do have the Bendix magento, remember that the breaker points are gapped at .018 at their widest. The rocker arm on the point should make contact with the crank shaft where it says "TOP." Then you know you are gapping the points at their widest setting.
Before you go to the expense of buying the coils, do you know the compression of each cylinder? I spent a lot of money on my Wizard's magneto only to find out that it has bad compression and now I have to replace the piston rings. More than I had bargained for, as it is getting to be a pricey and complex restoration. Something you might want to consider.
Keep up the great work!
Alright. How exactly would i go about checking the compression of the cylinders??? Do i have to put everything back together and what exactly should the compression be?
Well, you at least need to be able to to get the recoil back on the top to be able to give it a couple pulls. This is one of the few cases where you need a special tool. You can get a compression gauge at an auto store....get the cheap model (~$20).
To check the compression of each cylinder, remove a spark plug and screw the gauge in. Give the recoil three pulls and check the reading on the gauge. Ideally the compression should be about 120 PSI per cylinder, but if you are at least around 100, you should be in good shape. Since it has been sitting for a long time, the reading might be a little low, but it will likely come back up after it has been running a little and the oil in the fuel mixture lubes things up.
If you test it and the compression is really low (~50 psi), then you likely have to replace the piston rings...a job I have yet to tackle. If you try running it with low or imbalanced compression between the cylinders, it will be really hard to start or will likely run erratically. My Wizard has 92 PSI (top) and 75 PSI(bottom); I can get it running, but the motor runs poorly. Anyway, I hope you don't run into this problem, but it is something you need to be aware of. If you need to replace the rings, you're looking at another $50 in parts for the rings and a little more difficult repair.
If it was stored in-doors and if the cylinders were fogged when it went into storage, the better chance that the piston rings will be okay. If the readings come back around 85-90 PSI, then I would say that it would just need a good running to lube things up again.
Alright i just check the compression of both of the cylinders and it seemed that they were both right around 80PSI, I havnt not done anything to the internals yet so i was thinking that they are pretty dry as of now. Also, i was under the impression that the gauge would stay at that psi after i pulled the starter chord but it shot up and then shot right back down. Is this what is susposed to happen?
The gauge should retain its reading after you pull the cord (make sure it is screwed tightly into the spark plug socket). Mine has a pressure release valve to reset it to 0 after you take the reading. Although the reading is a little on the low side, I would chalk it up to just being dry from years of sitting. It might be a little stubborn to start the first time you try to give it a good running, but I wouldn't go to the trouble or replacing the rings at this point (especially since you have equal pressure between the cylinders). I would suspect that after you run it for a while and things lube up the reading will go up.
So, for now I would stay the course on the magneto work you are doing and also give that carburetor a good cleaning (there ain't much else that these things need to run). The rebuild kits for the carburetor are not too expensive and would be worth the effort as the gaskets are probably going to be dried out when you break things down for a cleaning. I can send you instructions on how to set the idles on the carburetor after you get that cleaned up.
Keep up the good work!
I dont think the problem was screwing the gauge into where the spark plug was, i screwed it in very tight. What else could cause this? Also, there are 5 holes on the left side of the engine block, 2 of them have threads and the others dont is that normal??
I really can't explain why your gauge did that? Does it have pressure release valve or not...it should?!? Maybe you got a faulty one if all of the connections are tight. I can send you a picture of mine for comparison, if you want.
With respect to the holes to which you are referring, could you send me a picture so I can better understand what the heck that could be. I've never worked on a Powermatic 15 or Mark 25 specifically, but I can tell you that my motors don't have "extra holes."
I guess the gauge that I was using was messed up, so once i fixed that, the reading stayed at 80PSI per cylinder, im going to give the carborator a good cleanning and then purchase the magneto supplies then i will post and let you know how it works!
Sounds good....you're on the right track. Looking forward to hearing of your success.
Alright I got the magneto parts in and after they were all in I checked the sparks on both spark plugs and one of them wasn't sparking. So I diagnosed the magneto and found out that one of the condensors that I had bought was shorting out the spark, I tried the old one and it sparked perfect.
So I got it put all back together and it started!! It seemed like it was having a little trouble and was smoking a lot tho. It didnt seem like the throttle was really doing anything in terms of increasing the power. What exactly should I go about doing now and im still a little confused about the knobs on the front. Thank you!
That's great news. I've heard from other folks that you occasionally will get a bad condenser (shouldn't have a problem with returning/exchanging it).
What you are down to is just getting that carburetor properly tuned for high speed and idle settings. It is probably running too rich and that is why you are getting so much smoke (better than running to lean). However, at a 24:1 mix, these things will smoke a little. Using TCW3 2 cycle oil will help cut down on the smoke.
The best way to adjust the carburetor is to actually get the motor out on the water so that the timing can be set with the full load of the boat. Follow the instructions I sent you while out on the water.
Get the high speed needle valve set first. You want to get the motor running wide open (in gear). It should initially be backed out 1 turn from all of the way in to get it started. Once running wide open, slowly back it out 1/4 turn and let the motor adjust for a little bit. Keep doing 1/4 turns until it starts to run rough, then just turn it back the opposite way until runs smooth again. Once it is set, you don't need to touch it.
Once the high is set, back 'er down to slow speed, put it in neutral and follow the instructions to get it idling well. Initially the idle needle valve should be 1.5 turns backed out from all the way in. Follow the same process above until it is idling smoothly.
Again, you can do this in a big trash can, but you are the going to have to tweak the settings out on the water to account for the load of the boat.
You're in the home stretch.
I have a chris craft challenger outboard with the same bendix magneto and am not getting a spark. The coils are cracked just like you said yours were anthony. I would like to replace them along with the condensors. Where did you get yours. I found a guy that sells the coils for $47, curious if you found them any cheaper.
Also. Are either of your magnetos adjustable or rotated when in operation. My throttle lever is directly connected to the magneto. In my mind this would throw off the timing causing pre-ignition. Any insight would be apprecited.