Nature's Quick-Dry Forum

Welcome to The Nature's Quick-Dry Forum. Feel free to post a message.

Challenger Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

I just learned of a finish product called EMULSION. It is made by BASIC COATINGS, a major player in the wood floor finish field. It is a kind of hybrid oil+ water finish (who knew you could mix oil + water?). It has the amber color of an oil-based product (most water-based finishes are as clear as water itself) and is applied with the ease of an oil-based finish.
Water-based finishes require a fairly high skill level for the finish not to dry kind of wavy or ripply. But it cleans up with just water, like latex paint. It can be used as both a recoat finish (one coat) as well as
after full sanding (three coats). It dries after just 3 hours, and the next coat can be applied without screening the surface (unless you wait more than six hours). It is very low in VOC's, and is considered a "green" floor finish.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Follow-up to above post: we just did a sanding & refinishing job for a customer who wanted a "green" finish; an amber look, like oil; and wanted it in semi-gloss. We went with something called Polyureseal BP from AFM Safecoat, which is very "green". However, it comes only in satin and in gloss. So we had to mix the 2 together ( very slowly and carefully, so as not to creat bubbles) AND we had to mix in something called an AMBERIZER, made by Basic Coatings, to give it the look of oil, as Polyureseal is a clear as just plain water. I think next time well save ourselves some time AND some money, and go with EMULSION. Money? Polyureseal is about $85 per gallon; EMULSION is around $35.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Guess I'll just this thread going myself. With regarding to recoating to the very hard new factory-applied finishes, such as aluminum oxide: there is now a recoat finish available for these floors. It is ZAR ultra-max. Aluminum oxide finishes are so hard, it is difficult to impossible to abrade them in the usual ways, such as with sanding screens or maroon pads. Apparently, with ZAR Ultra-Max, you can just clean the floor, then apply this product, without the likelihood of its peeling off in a short time.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

All this with just the Challenger and some applicator pads for the finish?

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Re. my post on the ZAR product: I took that information from a Forum for wood floor refinishing professionals - I don't recall which one. To try and verify that info, I just called the ZAR technical phone line, and they disagreed, saying Ultra-Max should only be used over traditional, site-applied water- and oil-based finishes. I called a distributor of products to the refinishing industry, and they said to prepare one of the super-hard factory-applied finishes for recoating, you should first screen it with a 150 grit sanding screen. To do this with a Challenger, you would put the screen under a white floor pad. They then recommended a finish called "New Age" to apply as the re-coat.
The recoating finish should be applied with either a t-bar (kind of tricky to work with) or a synthetic lambs wool pad.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Are you still subbing this out to your hard wood floor guy from Angies list?

Have you thought of doing recoating using your challenger, no sanding, but possibly using Laminator Plus products that can be used for hard wood floors as well?

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Not familiar with Laminator PLus. Can you elaborate?

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

http://www.lamanatorplus.com/index.html

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Bill,
Interesting website on the Lamanator plus product.
I would be interested to know if you have tried the products yet and what your results have been.
I am just getting into Floor care with a Challenger package from Mark, and since I just recently laid down 4 laminate floors in my house, would be interested in this product. More and more people seem to be using laminate flooring as it is getting easier to install, (In my opinion). I think there is going to be a growing market for maintenance on these floor.

Lance
Comfort's Cleaner Carpets
(How bout that one Mark? Wish "Comfort Zone" wasn't taken Darn-it :)

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

I have not used it myself, but know a lot of people that have. If you like you can email me directly and i can fwd you their info.

It can also be used on hard wood floors as well.

I would personally apply it with your challenger and a white buffing pad than a red buffing pad if needed, rather than just a mop, it would make you more of a professional in the home. For your laminate floor since it's new, you can just use the micro mop to apply the product, it will remove scratches and foot prints that you get alot w/ laminate, one of the best times to apply it is after the floor is installed, as the installers have walked on it with their dirty shoes.

People charge between .95 cents up to $2-3 a foot, depending where you are located, etc.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Bill M,
My email is CNYLance@aol.com

Would appreciate more info on this.
Thanks,
Lance

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

I took a look at the LamanatorPlus website and offer the following comments.
There is no way to determine the quality of the finish provided in this system. How does it compare with the water-based or oil-based urethane finishes people expect when they hire someone to do a recoat job? Given the guidelines as to number of sq. ft. of floor that can be done with a quart (looks like a quart) of the product, it seems as if it might be comparable with a product called QUICK SHINE (www.hollowayhouse.net)
However, at around $30 per quart container, its price is about FOUR TIMES that of Quick Shine.

You might do better using one of the new water-based finishes from Basic Coatings (www.basiccoatings.com), a highly recognizeable and respected name in the floor finish industry. Basic's "Emulsion" product is water-based, goes on as easily as oil-based finishes, and sells for about $55/gallon. Since a gallon covers between 500 and 600 sq. ft. of floor surface, cost of the product is only .10/s.f./coat. When you are recoating, normally only one coat of finish is applied.

Also, the Lamanator website mentions nothing about what to do if the customer has been using a product like Murphy's Oil Soap on her floor. Most professionals in the wood floor refinishing industry will refuse to do a recoat job if Murphy's has been used, as it may cause the new coat of finish to not adhere well. Can the Lamanator prep product - another pricey product - (the first step) be depended upon to remove Murphy's OIl Soap? Can't tell. Some people scrub a floor with Murphy's on it with ZEP Hard Floor Cleaner. Some use Dawn Dishwashing soap. Mineral spirits can also remove it, but as a volatile solvent, there is a risk of starting a fire. All pilot lights have to be turned off if mineral spirits are to be used, as well as other precautions taken.

If you are interested in recoating wood floors, why not just abrade the existing finish with a high grit (#150 or #180) sanding screen, vacuum up the dust, tack with damp towels, then when fully dry, apply a coat of Emulsion. In this manner, you will actually be removing scratches, not just depending upon the recoat finish to cover them over and hide them. Or, go back to the Lamanator site, and get someone there to answer the questions they omitted when designing their website.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

We have used the Challenger and the Max on several wood floor refinishing projects.
There are pictures on our "Challenger Chat" which can be found at www.challengerop.com
We have had terrific results, so we know the Challenger is up to the task and you can have confidence in using your machine.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

Mark, I have been wanting to get into this type of cleaning also. I attended a seminar put on by Buckeye, and it was pretty straight forward to recoat a floor. They screened the floor, then tack it then recoat using the T-Bar applicator. The stuff they have dries for a recoat in a couple of hours and pretty low VOC.

Re: For people doing - or thinking of doing - wood floor refinishing

It is all pretty straightforward stuff, but as in any job, the devil is in the details. People who are accustomed to using a T-bar applicator make it look pretty easy. But with a water-based urethane product, you have to get it right the first time, since it sets up VERY fast. If you over-brush, or otherwise spend too much time trying to smooth it out with whatever applicator you are using, you can end up with streaks or waves in the dried finish. This doesn't occur with oil-based polyurethane, or a tung oil type product such as Waterlox, which are both pretty much self-leveling. A new water-based product called EMULSION, from Basic Coatings, looks like an oil-based finish (amber rather than clear) and handles like one also, although it is water-based. It has quickly become my new favorite floor finish.