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equipment advise?


How is it that you can give any advise or information on the CCS machines. 1. You don't have one, you have NOT ran one, and KNOW NOTHING about what you are talking about on your April 13th post. I recieved several calls about this post. I decided to check it out.

2. Yes, Clark does build "our" machine, that is contracted, to where he himself cannot sell to anyone else, as it is John's machine and design. Not that is is any of Your business to tell others. We also sell the Brute and Easyglide that ARE NOT the exact machine as You claim it is. Our counter balance and flywheel design, only runs with "Our" drive brush, which is superior to the others out there, especially for "our" Glad Pads. Clarks machines will NOT run our drive brushes, without the machine being a jackhammer! So where do you come up with your Info!?

3. Clark flat out told John that he did NOT and WILL NOT sell machines to you for resale. So either Clark is Lying to John or YOU are lying to others.

4. You forget to mention that Carpet Care Systems machines have higher speed oscillation than all the others with free floating handles.

CCS was the 1st Co. to come out with commercial oscillating machines for carpet cleaning. CCS was the 1st to come out with the brush cup, before Oreck made one. CCS was the 1st to come out with the Gladiator pad that no one else can copy exactly. Ruby had our machines before they made their own. Challenger's originator, Kirk Jenkins, worked for us and was taught about our "Old Blue" oscillation. Because of John, others have profitted from this business. CCS was the 1st to come up with high speed oscillation. Clark's machines, with wheels, now do too. When are you and your "cronnies" going to figure it out?

I don't mind other machines out there, or competition. Carpet Care Systems now sells the challenger too, so we don't have to build a 15" machine. I just don't care for unfounded, and wrong information coming from people who don't know what they are talking about.

You may want to buy one of "OUR" carpet cleaning OPE manuals, that has John's 35 years of experience in it. Then you will be enlightened.

Sincerly Patty

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Patty Dearest
Such vitriol! and from a member of the same industry.
Re. any differences existing or not existing between the Orbitec line of machines, and those sold by your own fine company, I only know (and have mentioned here) what Clark has told me over the phone. And in the past, I have found him to be quite forthright and truthful (somewhat unlike your own John, who has come onto this site under a pseudonym, rather tastelessly puffing up products sold by In contrast to the practices of your other half, I must commend you for at least having the decency to post your attacks under you own name.
And while certainly not operating at anywhere near your level of volume, I have had a number of Orbitec machines delivered to customers of mine. I fail to understand how someone else selling the same product threatens the Guerkink standard of living in any remote way. Does a Dodge dealer in, say, Florida, throw a hissy fit when another Dodge dealer, in say, Arizona, has the factory ship out a car to one of his customers?
I've let you hype your product line a bit here on the Challenger Forum without throwing you off, and let you throw out all kind of nasty-sounding accusations as well. But I've only done so in sympathy, as you sound like a mean-spirited, rather unhappy woman, Patty. Maybe if we could all just sit down and have a beer together some day, I could help you to see how we're all in this orbital boat together, and we should be encouraging and supporting each other, not
going after the other's jugular.
Have a nice day.

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Ah the high road always a much more comfortable/classy route!! Good response Mark

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Wouldn't use other names if you let my post stay without deleting them Mark.

Patty laid out the facts, you have posted a lot of untruths about products. Like Patty said, either YOU or Clark is lying about this as well.

High road? You seem to not know the history here Rick, not at all? Calling facts vitriol? Class, no, just the same old Mark doing the same old thing. I expect people to copy our business as the competitors all have, however then to despise that company is a lot less than CLASSY.

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Wow! I am so honored! A visit from the Master of the Forked Tongue, the Duke of Duplicity himself. The person who, when visitors approach HIS own Bulletin Board, insists that they do so under THEIR OWN NAME. But who then feels entitled to go shilling his own (well, sort of his own) product line, and bad-mouthing the offerings of others, under a variety of aliases. And has now finally even outed himself. John, you don't even realize that you have just been hoisted on your very own petard. Now, GO TO YOUR ROOM!

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You know Marko, you are a typical liberal, you spout that crap, and that is all it is crap.

I don't speak with forked tongue, never have and won't now. I am sometimes disliked because I will tell it like it is even when people DO NOT want to hear it. I don't have time for BS.

You have spoken crap here to people for a long time, and I am sure you will continue to do so, but don't expect people to just sit by and put up with it.

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now now children, lets fight nice

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That was a real cute post. I thought I was listnening to Obama, the way you so elegantly tristed my words around. But any body with a real brain, who read my post, could see that.

I don't need John to defend me against you!

Fact. John and I DO NOT lie. You do and have to everyone about our machine. Either you or Clark are lying about selling Clark's machines. It's that simple.

It's Not weather you sell them that is the issue with me. It's the lying about it! You say we should all work together, yet it is YOU who at every turn try to undermine CCS/or John. And yes you always deleate him because he calls you on the carpet when you are lying.

We run our business on honesty and dependibility, the way God wants us to. I know that you do not like Christians or conservatives, but you don't try and make yourself look better by putting down others. I'm not trying to put you down Mark. You have lied about us and our machines in public, so I'm calling down your lies in public, that's all.

I don't have time to argue with people on the boards or monitor every thing people write, as I'm busy in the office taking care of business and our customers. I was call by at least 3 people on your posts, so I knew that I needed to read your post and address it.

If you want to have team players, Mark, then be one. Don't twist what others say to suit your purpose.


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Ummm...excuse me? I have a noise problem with my Challenger. Could someone.....

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Why did political affiliations become injected into this argument? John & Patty, I am a CCS customer, heck I just placed an order from you guys a couple of days ago. I am a Democrat, and I take offense to your generalizations of liberals, Democrats and Obama supporters.

Clark Lancaster will be on Pro Cleaners Network tonight. Are there any questions I should ask him so that we can clear this up?

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Now the truth begins to emerge. John & Patty's attacks on me here are all based on what they have determined to be disparate world views. I spent some time several years back participating on John's board. I actually learned a lot from it. Thanks, John. But John is unable to just run a board in order to help it to generate business. Within a short time I became appalled at the nastiness and mean-spiritedness aimed at anyone who dared not walk in religious and ideological lockstep with John and his tight little inner cabal of adoring sycophants. And if someone was found to be from Massachusetts, well, that made them a walking dead man right then and there. Talk about ignorant stereotyping! I recall having the AUDACITY to suggest in a post that Guerkink hero George W. Bush was going to, if elected, make a less that adequate president. The Bush administration's now almost seven years of deceit, national mismanagement, and
complete blundering in matters both international and
environmental, shows that I had good reason to express my lack of confidence in Mr. Bush. And about 80% of the population of the country now agrees with my original apprehension,and recognizes the man's near total incompetence in the Oval Office. I suppose you're still busy there, John, canonizing other losers who pass your litmus test of NEO-CON IS GOOD: EVERYONE ELSE IS BAD AND WILL BE PUNISHED IN HELL. And John, I don't know what your background is in military matters, but I am a former U.S. Naval officer and Viet-Nam vet, and I can be as bleeping liberal or conservative as I want to be, without checking with you first. I've earned the right, unlike your 2nd Lieut. George W. Bush, who due to his family's political connections, was able to keep his chicken hawk white ass well away from any combat zones. And please, Patty, let's not bring Obama into this - not with the whole world watching and all. He's having enough problems right now dealing with the recent intemperate remarks of his former pastor. And also - please don't try to decide who is a Christian and who is not. You're starting to sound a lot like the Scribes and Pharisees when you get into areas in which you really don't know what you're talking about. And if you do choose to post here again, try to use your spellchecker, OK?

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I'm not taking sides here, but I don't care WHO you are, that there was just funny!

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lets see............

religion, politics, OP machines. hmmmmmm

oh never mind, think i'll just go to wendy's

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Bush, millitary, spelling?
What about the OP machines? You haven't addressed any of the points that were raised.

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What I have appreciated about Mark Dullea's comments and responses on the Challenger Forum over the years is that he is unfailingly knowledgeable, honest, and gentlemanly. This board is his design. His wit and professionalism shine forth in every thread. We are aware that Clark does manufacture the CCS machines for the Guerkinks and that Mark does distribute the machines that Clark manufactures. We have a good working relationship with Clark and have both bought inventory from him and sold inventory to him. Mark does represent and distribute Clark's machines, just as he does ours.

We know Clark to be a good man and have been very proud of the manner in which Mark Dullea has represented our company over the years. We expected to have the same great relationship with the Guerkinks. Mutual respect, cooperation, professionalism, these are qualities we look for in those we choose to do business with.

The great thing about the Challenger Forum is that it is about business. It is about sharing the power of knowledge and experience so every one can be lifted up and successful in their business. I am proud and grateful to be associated with Mark Dullea because he stands for that empowerment.

Christin Watson

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Ok, I am going to try to make a funny, maybe lighten things up a little.
I think I found video of Mark & John debating on there computers.

( scroll down to the post by Jim Martin, Look at the pic under his name)

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bah i say delete this ridiculous thread. one of the few forums where we dont have to read this garbage.

thanx --- Derek.

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I agree with you, Derek. But when people appear out of nowhere, charging onto a businesslike forum and start making all kinds of outrageous accusations, I tend to give them some time and webspace, just so that they can reveal themselves for what they really are: two well-matched, silly, childish, boorish,
seemingly greed-driven, enormously self-righteous,
deceitful, and just plain nasty people. I'll take this all down in about a week, so no one can say they weren't given adequate time to let out everything they wanted to say.

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It has been a rather revealing thread. It's further supported an opinion I have been forming for some time now. I was amazed it was brought here.

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Sort of sad, actually. Kind of a waste of vital energy. But this whole thread has inspired me to address and stamp a whole bunch of post cards. And the tempered input from Christin was impressive. Will be glad to see it all deleted...

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I will be glad to see this thread deleted, also.
I am sad to see it.

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My apologies Mark, I was lied to, but not by you, Clark lied to me two times concerning this issue, right to my face!!
. I would never have questioned you or said anything if I had known Clark was lying to me. Seems that isn't the only thing I was lied to about, so please accept my sincere apologies.

As to the liberal thing, hey, YOU of all people know I love arguing that stuff, I could care less what a person is, I just love to hear them be willing to SAY what they are without all the BS. s a vet or heck just being an American you have the RIGHT to be whatever you want, and so does everyone else. You wear your liberalness proudly I wear my "to the right of Rush" view proudly. Cool.

But as the religious stuff, I only know ONE way and that is the ONLY one I see, can't help that.

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having done business with mark d, and the watsons in the past has left me with nothing but praise, for thier professionalism.

i never conducted business with big john or his wife, but have heard from others they too are professional in thier doings.

now everyone, just kiss and make up, let the water flow under the bridge

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John, it's certainly gratifying to me that you're back here making nice now, but I've never felt that shooting first and asking questions later was the best way to advance human relations. I don't know if that's what you refer to as a "liberal" attitude or not, but doing a little investigation FIRST before going all "shock & awe" right at the start might help everyone get along a little better. My memories of seeing how you conduct matters at your board, when an outlook that is in opposition to your own is raised, is that you seem to have a greater need for the excitement of all the the resultant conflict and name-calling than you do for truth and fairness. Just my opinion. But I thank you for the apology, and I have responded to your most recent post on the related thread, as to how I came to my understanding that all the Orbitec machines were mechanically and design-wise the same.

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Yes, I am guilty of shooting first and then checking to see if I shot the right guy, bad habit, however I inquired TWICE what I thought was 'straight from the horses mouth", so I believed what I was told. I have a habit of trusting too much some that I do business with a mistake I will not so quickly make again.

Now with a little investigation I am finding a LOT of lies have been told, and I will get to the bottom if it.

Remember though, while I have been guilty of drawing my gun a little fast, I don't lie, I am a bit crass at times, but I just tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may.

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I have a much greater level of respect for both Mark & John, as a result of recent posts made on this and the other thred.

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Well hopefully we can put this behind us now.

I think it was very classy of John G to come on here and admit that he was lied to and thus was wrong about certain things. That doesn't change the fact that his machines are different, and I can certainly understand that he has been upset when seeing these things said.

I know for a fact that John G doesn't try to bash the Challenger or other OP machines. What he's really trying to do is pump up OP cleaning in general, but at the same time point out the differences between the different machines. Of course he prefers his design the most, that's why he has Clark make it that way and why he sells it. So occasionally he comes across as biased when he's really trying to educate.

One time when I was talking to John G on the phone about my CCS Breeze I told him I had a Challenger also. He could have said something negative, but instead he complimented the challenger and just pointed out that each machine has different pros and cons.

Like Micky said, we have a lot of good folks both at CCS and Challenger, so maybe this will lead to folks getting along again in the future.

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If PadSon would only keep his wife in the kitchen where she belongs, none of this would have happened.

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You don't have to be a jerk to make friends. She was responding to inaccurate information about her company's machines. Mark was giving this information in good faith, This isn't a good guy vs bad guy thing. Good people on both sides that had to work out a misunderstanding. It seems it has been worked out, so why through gas on a fire that's been put out?

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good point Andy.

AND, it shoulda been dealt with privately between 2 vendors via email/a phone call PERIOD.

i would not argue / throw accusations at a "competing" CC'er in front of any of my (let alone multiple) clients in hopes of proving something.

'cause what it proves is not very appealing to my client no matter who "wins" the argument, no matter how right i am.

but arguing on the internet is deceivingly harmless...

thanx --- Derek.