Hi Mark and everyone else,

I've rad every sinle thread on this board and have done extensive research on most of the equipment out there, both res n com...just like many people i've been using hwe for some time now, but would like to convert.

My question(s) are simple.

After reviewing the Challenger on this forum and also seeing John's OP machines(commercial breeze, easyglide, brute, etc), i wanted to know which company i should go with. Now i would like to know exactly why i should purchase the Challenger over the other brand, etc. I am leaning towards Challenger due to lower cost for initial investment of the package offered with Mark, but wanted to know what are the differences between both brands.

Any info will be appreciated.

Regards,

Bill

Difference between some of John's equipment and Challenger is the size of the orbit, which apparently makes his machines faster. I can only speak to Challenger, since that is what I have, and I must say that for resi work the Challenger keeps up quite well. The bottleneck is the unpacking and prevacuuming and tabbing and mixing and carrying stuff in and out - I have never felt that the speed of the Challenger was an impediment. Service and response from the Watson's is excellent and the machine [except for a little added locktight on the safety latch and an extra cord relief anchor point] runs day after day and continues to amaze me and anyone who happens to watch.

oh yeah... all that being said, I must add that John's gladpads are nothing short of absolutely awesome! And his manual would have been very helpful to me a couple of years ago.

Personally, I will never again run an OP machine that doesn't have guide wheels on it. I may be mistaken, but I don't believe the Challenger has them. So, that would make you think that CCS would be my (or your) only choice.

Not so. You can get the same machine as John's from Orbitecsolutions.com, and the gladiator pads as well.

Bill, to help you make up your mind on these questions let me again remind Challenger Forum readers that in addition to selling both Challenger models (the standard Challenger Pad Machine, and the 21" Challenger Max) I also sell the entire line of Orbitec machines (www.orbitecsolutions.com). The CCS machines are all Orbitec machines, given a new name, and seem to have had a few claims added as well. They are all drop-shipped directly by Orbitec to the CCS customer, not first shipped to CCS for additional "tweaking". So I can sell you any machine you like, including the machine with the so-called "guide" wheels. On the Orbitec website, these machines comprise the "Defender" line, and are identical to the CCS "Easy-Glide" line. Plus, I sell all Orbitec machines at 10% BELOW the Orbitec factory prices. If you purchase my package choosing an Orbitec to replace the Challenger, I adjust the price accordingly, factoring in the 10% discount that I am able to offer on Orbitecs.

If they're not guide wheels, then what is the appropriate name for them, Mark?

isnt Challenger Max have the "wheels" (otherwise known as round plastic devices that helps transport something from point A to point B)

thanx --- Derek.

PS: now Marty, was that so hard?

Well, I don't think I have ever seen an OP machine without "wheels", but the wheels I'm talking about are the ones that stay on the ground while cleaning. The keep the machine on track and reduce the vibrating. They also eliminate the need for a glider in almost all situations.

The counterbalance and pad drivers are different between the CCS and Orbitec machines. Yes Clark makes them all, but he makes them slightly differently. Whatever machine you get, try the Gladiator pads, the hold double the dirt, are easier on carpets, and make the machines easier to move.

For everyday residential work a 15 inch wheels on the ground model might work well, but the larger sizes might be difficult to manoeuvre around a lot of furniture. When the home is empty it can work fine though. For commercial just the opposite, the larger the job, the bigger size you want and wheels on the ground would be nice too. Hard to get everything for every situation in just one or even 2 machines.

I think Grant is right, and as I understand it some ccs machines are exclusively their design,although they are made by Clark.
I have never used anything but the challenger, I can tell you that it's a well made unit and great for residential.

Thanks all the replies

Sometimes it can be a bit confusing trying to go with the right equipment and what works and what doesnt.

Looks like i will go with the Challenger for res jobs, and maybe small com jobs less than 5k sft.

Later on, i can start upgrading to a bigger machine to handle those bigger jobs.

Another thing,

Is there any big difference between the 1/2 hp vs 3/4 hp motor? For $100 bucks difference? Is the orbit size also larger?

Looks like i will just need a commercial vacuum to get things started. I know i read on here or other forums from the diff vacuum cleaning people are using, but there seem to be many diff choices n prices...i just need something to add with the Challenger to do all the pre/post vaccuming.

Sorry for all the newbie questions, thought id just get it out of the way.

Bill

The only difference in the Challengers between the .5 hp and .75 hp motors is the 6 or 7 lbs. of weight added by the motor size increase. Everything else is the same. Re. vacuum cleaners: you might want to check the most recent issue of Consumer Reports with a vacuum cleaner test and comparison. They have frequently had as "Best Buy" a model under $100. These are machines intended for residential use, but even allowing for some periodic replacement (maybee every 2 or 3 years) they might work fine for you. I have a Eureka model with a HEPA filter that I bought for about $120 at least 5 years ago. It still runs fine,and uses the original rubber belt.

Mark, I need to disagree with you on this, why do we as so called pro carpet cleaners, go and buy cheap, sometimes used vacs and use them in our business. We need to enter the customers home with pro looking tools, that means: A co shirt, nice pants and sneakers or shoes, your spotting kit or a kit bag(buy the way best $ I ever spent on a bag was from interlink supply it holds everything) a vac that the customer CAN NOT buy at a Wal Mart or Best Buy, and of course our Challenger. We need to look like the pros we are. We spend lots of money on our chem, machines and pads, why do we cheap out on a vac.

so which vac would i recommend i go with?

i've also noticed some guys choose to use a pile lifter b4 prevac, but from what ive seen pile lifters cost almost the same price as the challenger.

I agree with the sentiment that it's better for your image if you use a vac your customer has likely never seen before. However you don't have to spend much $$ to accomplish this. Here's a couple simple vacs that would do everything but without onboard tools:

http://www.abcvacuumwarehouse.com/vacdetails.asp?DBID=2022&ID=Koblenz+U%2D75Z+CRI+Green+Label+Commercial+Upright
And
http://www.abcvacuumwarehouse.com/vacdetails.asp?DBID=1853&ID=Sanitaire+SC678A+Lightweight+Commercial+Upright+Vacuum
For onboard tools these would work just fine:
http://www.abcvacuumwarehouse.com/vacdetails.asp?DBID=978&ID=Sanitaire+SC5815+Upright+Commercial+Vacuum
http://www.abcvacuumwarehouse.com/vacdetails.asp?DBID=1710&ID=Carpet+Pro+CPU%2D75T+Heavy+Duty+Upright+Vacuum

The last Carpet Pro model is sold by the guy at my local vacuum store also and he tells me it's a very durable, good vac. One of the cleaning companies in town carries these for their cleaning service. You can get a slightly different "bare-bones" model where you get the tools separately, then you basically plug in a hose when you need it.

If I were starting over again I'd go with something like these... of course I like my vacs but I spent big $$ for them. I "wasted" over $400 on a dyson dc17 which broke in 3 months, never again.

wow those are some good deals!

Sorry Mark, but the CCS machines, though built for us by Clark are NOT the same as clarks machines. WE have a different counterbalance and head on ours, always have.
You have been misinformed or lied to.

To John:
This subject has come up on this board often enough so that to try and get to the core of the matter, I called Clark recently and asked him if there were differences, and, if he could elaborate, what they were. Now it is always possible that I misunderstood what he told me, but I recall him saying that he sent out all the machines directly, and didn't seem to want or need to go into any greater degree of detail. I was not in any way pumping him for "trade secrets" or anything like that.
I just wanted to have more than the hearsay info that people on this board were mentioning, and I wanted to hear it from the person who actually makes and ships the machines. If there are the differences that you claim there are, that would have been the ideal opportunity for me to have been set straight, without Clark being obliged to go into any more detail than he felt was appropriate, given his relationship with your company. I came away from that conversation with no knowledge of any differences.
That's all I can say.

Well Mark, you got your information from the same "horses mouth" that I did. I know the differences with my machines, I INSISTED on them for good reason, as his machines will not run my brush system properly.

Like I said on the other post, I have been lied to concerning you, you seemed to have NOT gotten the true information either.