I've been reading as much as I can about both HWE and OP... both on forums and other locations and one thing keeps coming up...

people seem to assosiate HWE w/ "DEEP CLEANING" and that the OP type system doesn't "deep clean" like HWE can

is there any truth to this or is it just marketing?

This is the typical steam cleaner's assertion, as he watches low-moisture cleaners increase their market share at his expense. The fact that they are injecting water, or a water/detergent mix down into the base of the carpet is no assurance that they are actually cleaning things down there. Much of that liquid is not suctioned out, and as it evaporates it can cause wicking, which pulls up imbedded soil where it dries visibly on the carpet fibers, generating a call-back for the HWE cleaner. ("Hey, 4 days later, the spots all can back.") HWE cleaning provides little agitation of the carpet fiber. With the high levels of agitation produced by a OP machine, very little moisture is required to enable the soil to be scrubbed off of the carpet fibers and absorbed into the thirsty cotton fibers in your terrycloth pad. And, best of all: NO CALLBACKS!.

If you spent 30,000 to 80,000 on a truck mount would you tell a customer that they can get just as good of a cleaning from the guy who spent maybe 4000.00 to start his business.

These TM guys are hurting because of Low Moisture Cleaning.

It's an old mind set for them and I guess if I spent that much on a tm I would talk down low mositure as well.

Also one other thing, if you look on the other HWE boards, you will see a lot of guys saying they had to pre scrub, Ok if HWE is so deep cleaning why would you pre scrub?

Ask them what they pre scrud with and most will say a challenger or some type of roto vac or an rx20.

So again, if you HWE and it is to be the bomb on cleaning why do you need to pre scrub?

with hwe isnt the water used as a transporter for dirt? Well if all of the water does not come out how can all of the dirt come out? Dirt typically even weighs more then water. I have cleaned after 2 hwe and pulled off lots of dirt, and made the carpets look alot better if they are deep cleaning they must not be surface cleaning.

I had the same concern about "deep cleaning" when I was deciding what method to use, first impression was that hwe was the way to go, but after deeper reserch I was convinced that op could clean as deep or deeper than hwe, the 2nd carpet I cleaned with op, left a layer of dog hair floating on top of the carpet wich was easily sucked up with post vac. the thing is these pepole haven't had a dog for 5 years! this hair was deeply imbeded in the carpet and was vibrated to the top during cleaning,

Had a discussion with HWE salesman a few weeks ago. I brought up the fact that spots frequently come back a few days after HWE. He said something like "Ya, that's just wick back." My response was "Exactly!, if the spot wicks back, it didn't all come out. Thus the cleaning was not as deep as you said it is."

It never ALL comes out, no matter which method is used. Only in the case of area rugs, such as orientals, which can be sent out to an in-plant facility, where they are totally soaked, scrubbed, air-blown, squeezed out, and finally hung up to dry, can you get everything out. Cleaning a carpet that is tacked down or glued down to the floor is always going to be something of a compromise. Too much water can result in very long dry-out periods, and soil wicking up into view. But some moisture is needed. That's where OP shines. You use just enough liquid to enable the high level of agitation of scrubbing pad to strip the soil away from the fibers, and absorb that liquified soil into its absorbent cotton fibers. Or with an encap process, just enough moisture so that the scrubbing with a non-absorbent pad will separate the soil from the carpet fibers, after which the dried soil/cleaning solution mixture crystals will vacuum up whenever someone next vacuums the carpet. How DEEP is OP cleaning? I don't think there is really any way to measure this, but in my experience, it's more than deep enough to please hundreds of customers every year.

i really need to try and get to this forum more often, you guys have some good discussions going on.

ya know guys, whether the cleaning process is HWE, bonnet, OP, or shampoo, the single most important step to approach deep cleaning is what should always be the first part of cleaning process, and that is the PRE-VAC step! i do hope ya'll realize the importance of doing this. it makes yer job EASIER, and yer job comes out CLEANER! most importantly, it truely IMPRESSES yer CUSTOMER!

i've used HWE for 30 some odd yrs and in that time frame, i also used bonnet and shampoo and have always started with a really good pre-vac.
the debate over which method deep cleans better will most likely never end. deep clean can be achieved regardless of the method IMHO, its all up to the operator. i happen to favor OP over all others :)