NOT a good move! We will still need paper maps in Scotland for the following reasons:
- For safety and navigation reasons you need a further horizon than that provided by a small screen, as the article says
- There are significant limitations of digital devices, the main one being loss of battery power
- It's a whole lot easier and quicker to whip your map (in a suitable waterproof cover) out from under your arm to consult in moments of doubt or emergency, especially if you're muffled up with thick gloves etc.
Digital devices have their place but cannot, in my experience as a Mountain Leader, replace paper maps.
Lesson over!
Simon.

I agree absolutely with Simon. An additional point is that, with paper map and core compass skills one can triangulate to get a good fix on your position should you need reassurance and/or your current locale.

Sure, we can all dispense with this method day-to-day. Switch on phone. Grab location. Simples.

But . . . as I'm sure Simon will corroborate ... danger on the hills typically results from a series of compound incidents that build incrementally. Cold, wet, exhausted, one of yr party close to collapse, battery dead and trying to get your pals off the hill. One route takes you clear to safety. There's a col ahead and a wrong turn here takes you into the wilderness. But there's still daylight. You can identify features, take bearings and translate these to your map.

Nowadays we have multiple navigation options. And we should embrace them. But to recklessly dispense with paper maps is, to mind, irresponsible and foolish.

Here endeth the Second Lesson!

Geoscience Australia says that if you want paper maps then you can print your own, easy. So A3 max for some and probably A4 and sellotape for most. I don't think they are saying that no-one uses or needs paper maps, just that fewer people are buying them and therefore they have become uneconomical for them to print. If we don't buy them then they won't print them. OS in the UK are actively promoting digital and paper maps but I wonder how safe our supply of ready printed maps are.

Moving right along, oh yea. See, |'m a professional graphic desinger, so outputting material is not some class of an issue for me.

But I'm a very small minority. Many trompers may have issues printing out maps. And this, to my mind, is the key to all of this. Predicating supplied mapping on the user creating her/his hard copy is invidious. It pre-supposes that the user can a) correctly define the area, and b) has the software and hardware ability to kick out high-resolution material that's fit for purpose in the field.

It's a zoo. And it may well marginate many.

Hmm. And here endeth the Third Lesson!

I agree with Simon and Humphrey that there’s always potential for an electronic device to fail.
Though I think its overstated - my IPhone running RouteBuddy will last a week with the back-up battery I carry. A software glitch or damage via dropping it on a rock is more likely than battery failure in my view
It’s easier to access than a paper map in storm conditions (in a quality waterproof case).
I suspect it won’t be too long (if its not already happened) that electronic route finding is as reliable as paper map and compass.

Paper maps aren’t failure free either
Am I the only challenger who’s had a map blow out of their hands in a gale?
Or become too waterlogged to read?
Or found that I’ve walked off the map and don’t have the next sheet? (If like me you use printout maps of the route for the Challenge, escaping bad weather in unexpected places where you haven’t planned an FWA makes this more likely).

Nor is navigation with map and compass infallible.
Despite 40 years practice on the hill, I recently made the totally amateur mistake of aligning the south end of my compass Needle to north and heading off a rocky summit 180 degrees out from my intended path (fortunately I spotted the mistake before I got to the cliffs). I didn’t have the map on my phone that day so I was totally reliant on map and compass - visibility was 50m so it was a good challenging day out.

It’s been a while since I took a positional bearing from a peak only to discover later that it wasn’t the peak I thought it was. Anyone else guilty of that?

Or pushed on in misty weather to the point where you suddenly realise you should have been checking bearings an hour ago and now you don’t know exactly where you are to use the compass because you trusted ‘your sense of direction’?

I probably ought to stop confessing my failings at navigation before Ali & Sue reconsider my suitability for next year’s challenge.

In my defence I competed to a pretty high standard in the score class of the KIMM and OMM for many years.

The hills can make a total plonker out of the best of us on a bad day (I seem to remember Hamish Brown confessing to similar failings in his Mountain Walk book).

I love the accuracy of my phone map - I know exactly where I am on the map and can easily work out a route forward. I can easily carry the whole challenge area on my phone thanks to the offers on maps for the challenge - I’m not fit enough to walk off that!


Personally, I’ll almost always carry both on the hill and depending on my mood on the day will use map or phone as my primary tool. I try to make sure I use map and compass often enough to keep my skills up (you don’t need to do that with a phone!)

I suspect that an inexperienced navigator is more likely to stay on route using electronic maps than paper (though the couple I met on Lochnagar last year using google maps to navigate really were pushing their luck!)

A good map (Harvey for me) is a thing of beauty and provides lots of scope for learning more about where you are and especially for preparing routes - even a large screen on a computer isn’t quite big enough for route planning - in that regard definitely superior to small screen devices.

Good debate. I've just started to use Viewranger and find it seductively easy. BUT it has drawn me away from using map and compass which I'm in danger of losing practice in. As I teach nav to DofE kids I should go back to map and compass as my primary tools, but will I?... anyway, I will always take both and then as Graham says, can choose which to use, or a combination of both.

This is an excellent debate, and free from the usual recalcitrant positions! I welcome this.

My own take, which I believe is shared by other contributors, is that we have multiple navigational channels. All have their pros and cons.

But, to return to the first posting, I deplore any initiative predicated on the removal of printed maps. Passing the onus onto a user to print their own maps or access material electronically marginates those who may be unable to access the relevant technology.

There are multiple reasons for this, not least amongst those who may present with disabilities.

As lovers of our hills and mountains we should strive to make certain that our environment is open to all and to ensure that accurate and accesible mapping - whatever the channel - is a precondite.

Humphrey,

A while ago I would have agreed with you on map printing, but the software and materials available have improved so much recently.

I print from route buddy onto Toughprint waterproof paper and end up with maps that are getting close to the quality of Harvey Maps for waterproofness and handleability - infinitely superior to an OS paper map or those horrible heavy numb laminated maps.

A TGO route goes onto ~10 double sided A4 sheets using a standard inkjet printer. I put mine in an A5 Ortlieb map case which is extremely tough and the whole lot weighs about 170grams. We only had a couple of rainy days last year, but the maps were absolutely fine with no running or damage.

A lot easier than in my old fell running days when I used to cut up OS maps and cover them in sticky-backed plastic hoping they would survive a rainy race.

If Harvey maps did the whole TGO route, I might be tempted back to traditional paper maps, but route buddy combines OS maps and Harvey maps seamlessly as you print out your route. I became a Harvey Maps fan via running the KIMM where they were the maps provided and now use them whenever I can - for me they give a better feel of the ground than OS maps - I don't understand how, but they do - personal view I've got friends who prefer OS.

Like all things to do with mountain adventure we all have our preferences (and some get very defensive about them) - I know what works for me and endlessly experiment to improve the details.

It helps to fill the time while we wait for the email telling us we have/haven't got an entry for 2020!!

I'm with Hump3 on this. It's not so much whether the technology is there or has improved over the years. There are those who simply don't have (or want!) access to that technology, or perhaps don't have the knowledge or skills to use it to their advantage. So access to traditional mapping is vital.
I was becoming lazy with my map skills until recently, it was easy to flick open my mobile (on flight mode) and check my position on Viewranger before consulting a map to move forward. This year on the Challenge, I downloaded a widget to my Garmin watch that gives me an OS grid reference, I took my map and found said GR and then decided my route or took a bearing and navigated onwards. For me, it was a good compromise. I like to use a good old-fashioned map for the majority of my day walks, but I am lucky enough to have a basic printer that I have mastered to print maps from Memory Map that I use on the Challenge, I have never yet walked off the edge...although I will carry a full map to cover the areas where I might be more likely to need it.

So, all on this thread are in broad agreement - printed maps should continue to be available from OS and others, and paper maps and compasses should be carried on the TGO Challenge with knowledge of how to use them, and used in conjunction with phone apps, GPSs, smart watches, etc as decided by each individual. I'll need to check but have Sue and Ali addressed this in the notes?...

Simon, good summary, it is covered in the event notes, under Planning for the Challenge - Skills, it mentions map and compass and not being solely reliant on GPS.

Going back to the original question about whether OS would consider stopping production of paper maps... OS is a GovCo and therefore runs as a business with a requirement to make a profit, or at the very least cover its costs. They have previously stated a commitment to paper maps (See here) but that was back in 2014. In their annual report for 18-19 under paper maps they describe "actively promoting our national mapping range to ensure that we maintain demand". At the same time, they describe the growing market for digital products and their OS Maps app. Interestingly they describe support from Country Walking and Trail magazine but no mention of TGO.

My take from all this is that we should support OS by buying printed maps if we want to see them continue to be offered as a product. I think that it is inevitable that if there is insufficient demand they will disappear. I carry paper maps, most of which I have printed myself. Sometimes I carry a full OS printed sheet depending on how much use I am likely to get from that sheet but I now think that I should buy more.

I meant to add that paper maps accounts for only 5% of OS revenue (Wikipedia). Not sure whether that makes them more, or less, secure as a product.