Perhaps best to bring a golden retriever as they are very good size so contain a lot of warmth. You can snuggle nicely with them and they are also cheerful and do not whinge due to the weather. An alternative is a large cat - get the largest one that you can! Yet one more alternative is to just bring the right sleeping bag (0 - -5 perhaps) and then layer up if needed. A warm toque (Canadian hat) and long undies are great. I put the undies and a pair of sleep socks in my sleeping bag always. Smile, enjoy the challenge and never ever whinge about anything. It ought to be an unwritten rule to know there may be some tough days but to jsut bring a smile to the ocassion. Peace.

Could somebody please lend me a golden retriever for the duration of the challenge?

Now that would only go and get you banned from the event so think of all the hard work planning since last year wasted just to stay warm :joy:

Mark,

How warm do you sleep? I’ve just had my 25 year old Mountain Equipment Dewline cleaned and restored. It’s 350 grams of down - with a decent mattress, long johns and a warm top it copes fine to a couple of degrees below zero - but I’m a warm sleeper. I’ve camped in snow a couple of times in it and been ok

I also use a fairly small proper tent (terra novar solar competition) - I think if I used a tarp, I’d be carrying a heavier sleeping bag because it would be draughtier and therefore colder.

I think I’m at the hardy end of the spectrum - others will be carrying bags with 400-500grams of down - perhaps even more.

I’m doing a low level route - if you want to camp up high, temperatures will be lower still and you may need a warmer bag.

Given the way the weather is at the moment, I’m beginning to get nervous that I might not be warm enough.

At the end of the day it’s a judgement call between what you can afford and what you’ve willing to carry.

Bit of an impossible question really.
Over 2 weeks in May in Scotland, you can get double figures at night and down to -7 C or more with windchill (yep, we've been in it that low), but it depends on your route, how high you are camping, and of course the weather.. Which is as we know a tad unpredictable at present.
Then, there is the tent you are in, the bag you have etc, etc..

So, whatever you feel happiest with.
Personally, I'm using an Enlightened Quilt (no hood) and xtherm mat.
Actually, the mat is equally as important as the bag, as it insulates you from the ground.
My quilt will go to 0F, they say.
Had it out in the beast from the East up in the Lakes this weekend and was stupid warm, which is good, as it was stupid cold. Just a thin base layer underneath.
So err.. Well, there you go! 😂

I've camped at Dalbeg and Shielin' of Mark and my water has been frozen in the morning. I've camped at the campsite in Ballater and been way too hot.
It is variable and unpredictable, so I'm going with my Synmat UL7 and a good bag, with a Comfort rating of -1, warm layers and an insulated jacket, just in case.
It's usually the wind chill and the bone penetrating damp that can make it feel worse.

I agree with everyone else, Mark. "It depends".

I've had damp socks and water bottles freeze on the Challenge but I am usually warm enough in my Rab Quantum 400 bag which is supposed to be good down to -5 degrees C (although I think that's a slightly optimistic rating). Even though I expect a few colder nights on the Challenge I'm not taking my much warmer, heavier (Tundra Pure -10) sleeping bag as I know that wearing an extra layer in bed will keep me warm and I'll be carrying those clothes all day anyway so I don't feel like I'm having to carry extra weight just for a couple of cold nights.

A buff round the neck helps to keep me snuggly on the colder nights.

Mark, another consideration to deal with windy camping conditions is a very lightweight sleeping bag cover; this sheds the draft, provides a very thin extra layer that traps the air around you and your bag, and any condensation forms on the cover rather than the bag itself. I made such a cover from Pertex several years ago,it weighs about 185g with a zip and allows me to use a lighter bag or quilt than might otherwise be needed. Commercial ones are available at a hefty price. There are always some frosty nights on the Challenge.

Thank you all. I was looking at the Marmot Hydrogen with 300g down fill and a short Nemo Tensor mat, but this discussion made me realize that's probably not enough. Also, my water filter uses hollow fibers which apparently are not supposed to freeze -- looks like I might be sleeping with it!

Marmot hydrogen will be perfect, that's what I use.
take a liner to keep it clean and add a little heat.
You might want to consider a full length mat,
I use an EXPED 7" down and with that combination can sleep anywhere.

Hi
The use of a short map will certainly save weight but I've tried it and now use a full length Thermorest - neoair. When I say full length - I'm only a little bloke!!!
The sleeping bag is an old Alpkit Pipedream 400 weighing in at 772g with its drybag. I've been cold and so started to wear Thermal top and bottoms which reduced the problem of being cold, but on several nights I awoke sweating!
So this year same old sleeping bag, Rohan utra silver tee and shorts and a Sea to Summit Thermolite liner. This liner claims to increase the warmth of your bag by up to 11C (265g) - seems a bit optimistic to me but the bag / liner combination is definitely warm.
I've always got a jacket to hand just in case I wake up cold - a tip I got from Louise on my first challenge is to have your jacket inside your bag. If you do need it in the night it's an instantly warm layer. The ladies always seem to know best when it comes to staying warm!!

Quite right Kevin, I do tend to have my jacket in the bag draped over my hips rather than actually wearing it :relieved: I also carry a couple pairs of disposable handwarmers. If I'm really feeling the cold, I use them as mini water bottles and move them around the coldest areas, often have one on my uppermost hip and the other on my tummy. I find them very effective.

I tried a liner on one Challenge and think they are the Devil's own invention. I kept waking up tangled in the thing and if I had needed to exit the tent quickly it would have been a problem. It is much easier to wear a set of thermals or fleece which can also be used as spare clothes under wind or water proofs. Each to their own.

Right on, Peter! And here's a giggle - one time I was in the upper reaches of the Dulnain (an interesting night with Eimar Woolf, but that's a whole other story) and a Challenger - who will be spared the indignity - had left their boots outside the tent. Frozen hard in the morning. I suggested that that they might care to warm them under their armpits. This did not go down too well.

Mark - be prepared for wildly different temps. Louise, Judith and Kirsten know of which they speak!

You're all making me worried now and I might have to buy some more stuff.

I camped out during the first beast from the east and woke up a few times because of the cold. The forecast said it should have been -7c, all I know is that everything was frozen in the morning. The ground was solid so I'm guessing I lost heat into the ground as well as the air.

I was using a Vango ultralite 900 bag (0c comfort, -22c extreme), a thermarest prolite plus (which says it should be ok down to -7c), thermal pants and top, woolly socks and a woolly hat.

I won't be taking that bag simply because it is huge and takes up most of my backpack. So, I have a vango venom 300 (5c comfort, -15c extreme) that I was hoping to use but now I'm having second thoughts.

I don't have a lot of money to spare but does anybody see problems with that lot or have suggestions for kit? Should I get a new mat, a new bag or carry and wear more clothes?

Disposable hand warmers are already on my shopping list and I'm yet to try out using a nalgene as a hot water bottle.

Thanks
Colin

Certainly didn't mean to worry anyone Colin!
The night temperature can drop below freezing, I have woken with iced water and a few inches of snow on the tent BUT mostly it's the windchill and damp that makes it feel cold.
So the message really is to Be Prepared. Carrying an extra layer or two may be enough. I also have an emergency bivi bag in my first aid kit which I have been known (once, on a Pre-Challenge Daunder) to lay over the top of my sleeping bag, a Vango Venum 300 at the time, to great effect. It was freezing that early April night in the Ettrick Forest and I shivered my way through it, not a pleasant experience! It was warmer at night a month or so later on the Challenge, but one if the wettest on record (2011) .
I wear Paramo waterproofs, which I find dry really quickly once I've stopped walking. I usually put my jacket, zipped up, over the top of the foot end of my bag at night and wear a hat. If I have warm feet and a warm head, the rest of me is usually convinced I'm warm enough.
A word of warning about layers though...you can have too many! You do need to have room in your bag for the air you've warmed to circulate.
There us no simple answer to your question I'm afraid, be prepared to sleep with two or even three layers, or maybe none!
A forecast nearer the time might help make a few last minute adjustments to your kit.

Hi Mark
I carry one of those emergency foil sheets, the type you seem marathon runners wearing at the end of a race. It's very light and I only use it if needed making it more adaptable than carrying a heavier bag. The sheet keeps any drafts off and is surprisingly effective at retaining the heat.
I also carry a pair of cotton socks for wearing at night. No good for wearing in my boots so they never get wet.

Colin

So, two years back, the weather was nice. Positively warm all day. I camped at a Bealach at 450m and it was -4 overnight. Going back a bit further we have measured temps overnight of -8. I'm sure others will all have their own experiences. It is not the norm in my experience to be negative numbers, but it tends to be chilly, so you do need to be prepared, or be prepared to have an uncomfortable night. You can always wear your clean clothes in a bag to up the insulation. We will also be doing the reflective blanket trick this year, as those things are very handy to have around. There have been discussions on sleeping cold / hot before as well. The things to bear in mind are tent type or tarp, sleeping bag, mat, clothes and your physiological type. As mentioned at the time, I generally sleep hot, but if I have had a hard day on the hills, for some reason I tend to sleep colder, so I pack accordingly. A good nights sleep is a joy on the crossing.

Colin,
If you are taking an insulated jacket for use at camp, you can use that as an extra layer in your bag if you are cold.

Oh! For gods sack!!! Just take a proper sleeping bag, I'll tel you why!! It can snow usually, it will be bloody cold sometimes at night, and you never know,,,,,

Remember, Terry:

"FRIENDLY ASSISTANCE AND ENCOURAGEMENT AVAILABLE FOR CHALLENGERS OLD AND NEW,

FROM FRIENDLY AND ENCOURAGING CHALLENGERS, NEW AND OLD"

Have a great challenge

:heart_eyes: