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Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Sorry about that, folks. I had uploaded a png file, and it appears that this place prefers jpg files: So, having another go from a computer I don't usually use - so I hope this works!



Having had my ears soundly boxed by a Challenger I present to you a bloodied map of two ways to get to Glen Kingie - courtesy of the rather wonderful Rolf - and also a way to get you to the road to Tomdoun as an alternative to walking along Loch Hourn.

Both routes to Glen Kingie require a measure of hill craft - neither are as simple as the route from Sourlies & Glen Dessary.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Just to get the scale of things, this picture shows Alan & Andrew fording the Carnach about 2k further upstream, in benign conditions. As you can see it is still quite wide and deep, and with a lot of water coming down it would prove a formidable obstacle.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

A comment from the Knoydart Foundation Ranger Service Facebook page:
‘A good friend died near there, the bridge was broken and we think he must’ve got swept underwater. […] Please take care folks.’

As the commenter says, this is a serious issue; please be very careful.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

"Having had my ears soundly boxed by a Challenger I present to you a bloodied map of two ways to get to Glen Kingie"
Oh no you don't!
At least not on my PC.
BTW I was not criticising as I can't even get my avatar to appear anymore.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

There is a lot of discussion between members of the vetting team and ourselves as to what we do about this situation and whether we can advise Challengers to go this way or not. We will make a decision and let everybody know whose routes include this area and have been vetted. We will also put a general notification on the message board.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Alan

I cant see your routes?

For me the bad idea of having to avoid this area but instead head for Barrisdale Bay and Kinloch Hourn would be the 9 miles on road all the way to Invergarry along the Tomdoun road.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)



Right click on the map and choose the option to open in a new tab at a larger size.

Right then!
Hopefully you will all be able to see the map now - put it down to my internet incompetence!

Please read this map in association with the comments on my previous post further up the thread. I would stress the point I made earlier: Both routes to Glen Kingie require a measure of hill craft as neither are as simple as the route from Sourlies & Glen Dessary.

The reason I've shown the route to the road to the Tomdoun is because it avoids the very awkward crossing of the Abhainn Chosaidh, which is particularity problematic in foul weather, as it sits in a narrow defile with boulders in the stream, making crossings very dodgy indeed.

I hope this helps.

:neutral_face:

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Alan's disappearing map - see below.



Right click and select "view image" to see it in biggavision. :eyeglasses: :+1:

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)


thanks for this wonderful support. But I must complain most vociferously that even with our skills and ultralight efforts that here in Canada I cannot find a bridge that will fit into my pack and be adequate as a replacement to cross the Carnach. Instead I will evaluate bringing a small boat with a 50HP motor on my shoulders and ferry all across the river in shifts. Smiles. We will all take the issue in stride and look to the vetters advice and the forum to make sure all have a safe and fun TGO. Cheers. PS - If any other TGOers have helium baloons we could use that might help!

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Do you have the map coordinates for that crossing? It looks reasonable but perhaps only in non spate conditions. I do not mind retreating if needed.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Have you crossed there Paul?

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

It may turn out not be a problem and we will be able to cross the Carnach upstream or on the bridge if it's still there but for people like myself who have accommodation in Mallaig and a ferry booked it is worth looking at the alteratives, in case it's very wet.

Going by Loch Cuaich is the obvious re-route but might be a tedious way to get to Spean Bridge in the time that we have. North Morar is a possible re-route but not ideal in bad weather. Perhaps the organisers would let us start at Lochailort if the weather is really awful.

Any route in this area could be awkward if it's really wet. I think the worst thing time-wise would be to descend from Mam Medail and then have to back-track.

Re. Paul's comment - I've heard of people not even being able to get back up Mam Medail when the burns are really in spate and camping until the water-levels dropped so I don't think people should rely totally in bad weather on being able to ford upstream even though it gets very shallow in drier weather.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Safety 1st, 2nd and 3rd of course. Any doublts on safety and use the alternative route. It appears on OS Landrager 40 at NM885975 that there is a crossing. This would involve going from the bridge NE for about 1.5Kms countouring around Cnoc Ailt na seilge. From the picture it seems that in non psate that his crossing would be safe and reasonable.
I am currently routed from Mallaig across the bridge but will modify to reflect the upstream crossing. IF there is bad weather anticipating spate conditions then my FWA will be to Kinloch Hourn I think (yet to map it out and comment appreciated). If one got to the crossing or even the bridge and spate conditions then one should NOT CONTINUE but go back to Inverie and the alternative route. Given that will be late in the day perhaps camp near the bridge then in the morning go back. Again -SAFETY FIRST. I look forward to many inpute and thanks to Sue and Ali for their notifications. COMMENTS PLEASE!
Dara OhUiginn, Ottawa, 2nd TGO, Age 66, UL approach with Garmin InReach for emergency comms.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Dara,

Sorry to disillusion you but those slashes across the Carnach don't represent bridges - they're waterfalls. Oddly enough, this topic arose on an earlier thread.

I think that it's important for folk to realise that the alternative routes along the River Carnach and beyond to Loch Quoich are very serious ones. The path along the Carnach is sodden even in normal conditions and after persistent heavy rain would be simply appalling. Abhainn Chosaidh to the north along Loch Quoich is another desperately difficult ford and the smaller burns on the south shore of the loch, whilst less demanding, would still involve long detours if you had to forge upstream. The path up Allt a' Choire Reidh is not one I've used but it must be rarely traversed and is probably fading. Only folk with sufficient experience and no little determination will consider these possibilities.

I'm not attempting to put people off from these FWAs - if you know that they're within your capabilities, then fine. But anticipate a very demanding day or two in vile weather.

Colin

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Apologies Dara, I've just realised that your GR refers to a point further south and that you've probably viewed an image. I wouldn't give that much credence though if the river is in spate.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

Thanks Colin for the reply. The route for the TGO TO SOURLIES could be shifted and I intend to do that to a FWA if any indication of spate. Later I expect to come val through SOURLIES as part of the CWT trail to Cape Wrath. The trail goes along the South side of the Carnach up to the crossing. One should always be willing to just retreat even if that takes an extra couple of days. It would be bad form to show up to the gate and tell St. Peter you were too foolish to just stop and go back. Perhaps if I bring a bridge with me......
Dara

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

This gives a good idea of the Abhainn Chosaidh coming into spate

Even at low water it's still a tad iffy Click here for a photograph taken from the same spot after the spate had subsided Looks to me like the spate was at least 1 metre.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

In 2011 - that was the wettest crossing for ages - we managed to walk in persistent rain from Barrisdale over the Mam Unndalain, the bealach between An Eag and Sgurr Beag and via the Allt na Feithe to Glen Dessary. Fording the Allt Coire nan Gall and the Allt na Choire Reidh was a bit uncomfortable in the rain & cold but far from dangerous. The pathless terrain between the Allt Coire nan Gall and the Allt na Choire Reidh is mostly grassy with the odd peat hags in between. It it doesn´t rain cats & dogs this is a viable alternative route to Glen Kingie.

If my memory serves me correctly the path along the Allt na Choire Reidh shown on the OS map was existent on the ground.

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

In the absence of favourable conditions to enable this route to be walked I am planning to go south via Tarbet and Kinniskaig to rejoin route east of Finniskaig. There is an indication that it might be acceptable to take ferry to Tarbet from Mallaig. The only scheduled service does not get to Tarbet until 15:30. However a private arrangement might be possible. If anyone else is interested in this option please let me know

Re: Carnach Bridge Closed (Knoydart)

If you want to get to Tarbet the best way would be to switch your start point to Morar and walk, probably quicker than waiting for the ferry anyway and I'm sure Sue & Ali would not mind in the circumstances.