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Re: Newbie Questions

Hello Rich and hopefully welcome to the Challenge.
It's all a matter of personal preference and some people will advise you one choice and others will advise the opposite.

But remember there will hopefully be many Challenge crossings for you, and you don't have to pack all the plums into one single crossing. Although I can remember the frustration in planning routes where, try as i might, I just could not fit everything in that I wanted to do in a single crossing.

It might be a cunning plan to keep to a lower level route for the first crossing, no matter how experienced you are. I believe this is what the vetters advise still.

One reason I would heartily endorse this is that the first crossing is special. It often happens that a high level section has to be cancelled because of bad weather. It is so disappointing to have to use ones foul weather alternative. You want your first Challenge to be a triumph without having to compromise on your plans.

Good luck and enjoy, whichever way you go.

Re: Newbie Questions

I agree with Joy.

Ben MacDui on your first Challenge is a big ask. Are you confident that, this far into a 14 day expedition, you'll be happy to take on what was once thought to be Britain's highest mountain? If you're confident, from your experience, that this will be within your capabilities, then fine ... but even then there are further issues to consider. Are you happy that you can come up with an equally fulfilling Foul Weather Alternative route to follow if the weather won't let you go high that day? They don't accept the Lairig Ghru as an FWA, so ...

But other than that, all the towns you mention will have Challengers passing through there. Some will stop for the night, others will pick up supplies and scoot on to a wild pitch somewhere. It's your crossing, and your call ...

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi Jeremy,

I'm confident whilst sat here in my warm study browsing maps with my slippers on...but yes how achievable this is after 9 days or so hiking I'm not sure. It'll have to be a decision made when I arrive at Glen Feshie. My draft FWE skirts around to Braemar.

Interesting you say Lairig Ghru isn't a FWA option, that would be by choice if approaching Ben MacDui from the North.

Other than the vetting process, is there a way I can find out what's considered appropriate for FWE's?

At the moment my route is a little long, requires 14 days averaging 25km per day. I'm looking at cutting out some early Munros to buy back a day or two to reduce the average. Alternatively leave them in and skip Ben MacDui...

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi Joy,

I wrote a reply but I can't see it in the thread so it may not have saved...

I agree I'm probably trying to cram too much into this crossing and I need to save stuff for future challenges.

I'll make sure my FWE's are equally as desirable so I'm not disappointed. It would be nice to bag some Munros but for me it's not the most important thing. Enjoying the crossing with some nice views and scenic wild camps is really my priority.

R

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi Rich and good luck with your application.

The current advice in the Challenge notes does indeed state that the advice to first time Challengers is to look at a low level crossing, for very good reason. For many folk this may be their first experience of backpacking away from established trails and their first visit to the Scottish hills. If that's so, then it certainly makes sense to ca' canny and test the ground before indulging in a more adventurous crossing.

However......

The answer to the high/low quandary lies very much in your own level of experience. For a frequent visitor to Scotland, in all seasons and with a lot of hill days under their feet, the fact that it's a first Challenge may not matter too much. There are quite a few Munroists who've decided to tackle the Challenge later on in their hill career and, not surprisingly, have submitted a demanding crossing well within their capabilities. It would be most insulting to say to such people that we'd rather that they stayed low and I'd doubt that that's ever happened. When you submit your entry form, you're asked to detail your experience and it's important that you state it as honestly as possible. The vetter will take that into account when assessing the viability of your route and will raise questions if they feel that someone is pushing the limits. The upshot is that if, in your own opinion, you possess the requisite level of experience, then by all means submit a demanding route. Believe me, any discrepancies between your hill CV and your proposed route will soon be weeded out.

A word on Ben Macdui, which, as Jeremy suggests, has its own issues. The Cairngorm plateau is sub-arctic in nature and, following a hard winter, may well be snow covered, demanding winter skills and additional equipment. It's impossible to predict until late in the spring just how much snow will remain. And FWAs become an issue, given the lack of viable alternatives. The Lairig Ghru is out of bounds, again for good reason, so you have to skirt the hills to either north or south. Heading south, Glen Feshie is the obvious route, north it's usually the shoulder of Bynack More then along Glen Avon. The latter involves a very significant diversion and puts Braemar potentially out of the picture. So if considering the Lairig or the high tops above Aviemore, it pays to think ahead and have alternative plans in place.

Only you can know how if your experience level sits comfortably with your route plans. If you're feeling confident that they match, then go for it. Otherwise, use your own good sense and stay low.

Hope that helps

Colin

Re: Newbie Questions

Thanks Colin, a lot of good info to think about.

From the advice I've had in this thread it sounds like my FWE is going to require some very careful planning crossing the Cairngorms.

My "hill CV" isn't anything like some of the legends that enter this challenge each year. But it does include a lot of UK hill walking, mountain navigation, tons of through the year wild camping etc etc Tricky to quantify.

I'm going to submit my route based on what I believe is within by capabilities but I will take the advice given by the vetters if they believe it's beyond my limits given my experience. After all, they review routes submitted by challengers of all experience levels.

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi Rich,

In my opinion, all the advice you have been given (and all from experienced Challengers!) is sound.

The only thing I would add is that the route you have outlined is going to be a sociable one - I would expect that you'll come across Challengers virtually every day. I always describe the Challenge as a solitary sociable walk, you do it on your own but you will always come across others heading for the east coast.

I look forward to meeting you next May, you're going to have a marvellous two weeks!

JJ

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi John,

That sounds ideal!! I love the idea of a solo, self planned, self sufficient expedition yet good chance social encounters throughout.

Really looking forward to it and likewise hope to see you sometime in May!

Rich

Re: Newbie Questions

Dear Rich

Welcome to the Challenge! I have been very interested to read the responses to your post, which are all wise words indeed.

I was also an experienced hill walker when I did my first Challenge. You might look at a multi-Munro Challenge day and reckon that you could do it, which I am sure you could. The question you should ask yourself is “Would I be capable of doing that every single day for two weeks?” More to the point, would you actually enjoy doing that every day for two weeks? If you are in doubt, then my advice is to plan a slightly less ambitious route and do the multi-Munro one the year after. Only you know what you are capable of.

I definitely find that planning the FWAs is much harder than the main route, especially planning to get back to the main route, but it looks like you are discovering that already.

Good luck and hope to see you in May.

Re: Newbie Questions

Thanks Emma,

My FWA may well rule out some of the Munros id originally planned, like you say getting back to the main route is tricky without adding too much distance. Also, I'm starting to realise my main route has a few sections that commit and don't offer practical FWE's.

What are the forum rules re posting routes?

Also, silly question, but can you save your forum profile or do you have to add name, email, avatar each time?

Re: Newbie Questions

Rich -

I think that 25 km a day for 14 days is just about ideal. That's what I always aim for - although my vetters will doutbless confirm that I seldome achieve it (and seldome actually walk exactly what I had on my route card, either ... but that's a whole different story!)

In recent years, I have been increasingly coming to the view that the best way to plan the route is to plan the FWAs first ... i.e. plan an entire crossing that is going to be achievable and enjoyable in rotten weather; and then to look at it, day by day, and say "if the sun's shining, what alternative places could I go on my way from this statrt point to that finish point?"

In other words ... I am thinking that hte smart play might be to plan an entire foul weather crossing, and then look out for the FAIR weather alternatives.

Re: Newbie Questions

Hi Rich,

The first few times I did the Challenge I planned my high routes first and then worked FWAs round the high route. That lead me to doing some horrible days of road walking or trudging through bog when I was forced on to my FWA due to the weather or when slight injury made me feel going high and remote wasn't wise.

I now find a low level route I'd be happy to do and build a high route round it. Inevitably I end up making a few alterations to the low route after I've decided on my high days but I end up with a route I'm happy doing weather I go high or low.

Ian C.

Re: Newbie Questions

Thanks Ian and Jeremy,

I've gone back to the drawing board and planning a FWE route as suggested, I'll then add sections I'd "like" to do if weather permits and I feel up to it.

I reckon my kit weighs around 10kg (inc 4-5 days of food), just need to lose 10kgs of body weight over the next few months and I'm all set, oh and get a place on the challenge of course!

Thanks for the info everyone!