Hi Niels.

First of all – welcome to the Challenge.

I have looked at the sort of route you are proposing many times, and I have always decided against it. Let me explain why.

I have no problem with starting at Torridon and going over Sgorr Ruaidh. This is a logical start to your route, and will bring you down to Achnashellach. There are many good route continuations here to the North of Loch Monar, but you are proposing going South of Loch Monar.

To get to the South of Loch Monar, you will have to make no progress Eastwards, but chart a route South through the Attadale Forest. If you are heading into this country, why do it from a Torridon start? Why not start at Strath Carran or Plockton?

Once you are through the Attadale Forest, you are going to hit the River Ling. I am not familiar with this river, so I will of course accept correction by anyone who is; but from the map, it does not look to me as though it will be easy to cross. If it is in spate after a couple of days of heavy rain, it may well be impossible to cross safely. There are no bridges shown on the map. So you may find yourself following it South West all the way to Kililan, or else heading East to the lochans North West of An Cruachan and looking to find a way through here. But (and again, I stand to be corrected by anyone with local knowledge if I am wrong) this area looks to me as though, after a couple of days of heavy rain, it may well be an all but impassable bog.

Having got yourself across the River Ling, you are still going to have to get to the South of Loch Mullardoch if you are heading for Carn Eighe, so again, you are going to make no Eastward progress whatever. And, again, you are heading into country which is far more logically accessed from one of the other start points – Dornie or Shiel Bridge. From either of those start points, you would expect to pass Iron Lodge towards the end of your first day’s walking. You are setting a course that will probably get you to Iron Lodge on Day 3. This is a problem, because if you spend too long lingering in the West, you may find yourself having to make compromises later in your route just to be sure you can reach the East Coast in time.

Carn Eighe itself is also a difficult mountain to fit into a Challenge route. You cannot sensibly plan approach it from the North over Beinn Fhionnlaidh, because you will need to find a way across the Abhainn a’Chailich first. If this is in spate, then you may mind that in order to cross it you need to go so far upstream that you may as well have walked the An Socach – Mam Sodhail ridge in any event.

In 2004 I planned a route from Shiel Bridge, stopping for the first night at Alltbeith Youth Hostel in Glen Affric, then heading up An Socach and walking the ridge to Mam Sodhail, Carn Eighe and Tom a’ Choinich. I did not get up there, however, because it was snow bound and I did not have the necessary winter skills and equipment. I had the same problem this year in the Mamores, which are much further South.

After Carn Eighe, you will come down into Glen Affric and you can get to Fort Augustus via Cougie Lodge. This is a well known route, well used by Challengers. However, it sounds to me as though you are thinking of taking a different route to Loch Ness, and then heading South-West to Fort Augustus. Why? Do you have a particular desire to find a route through the Balmacaan Forest? If not, I would say either take the more direct route to Fort Augustus, or head for Drumnadrochit (necessary, if you want to visit Urquhart Castle, as you say you do) and then use the boat to Inverfarigaig. From here, you will have to find a route through the Monadhliath Mountains, which you say is one of your objectives.

You CAN head into the Monadhliath from Fort Augustus (if you go there) – but most who do this aim to cross the A9 and the Spey at Newtonmore or Kingussie rather than Aviemore. If you have your sights firmly set on Aviemore, then staying that bit further North and crossing Loch Ness from Drumnadrochit to Inverfarigaig may make more sense.

If you want to go over Ben Macdui into Braemar, what is your Foul Weather Alternative (FWA) going to be? The rules of the Challenge will not allow you to specify the Lairig Ghru as your FWA, for very good reason. Glen Avon is attractive, but does not offer any easy routes to Braemar. Glen Feshie – Glen Geldie is the normal option in poor weather; but if this is going to be your FWA then you cannot really afford to go much beyond Aviemore for your overnight halt. But if you start in Aviemore rather than, say, the Youth Hostel in Glen More, then you’re looking at a seriously big day going over Ben Macdui. I don’t know where you’re thinking of making your overnight stop, but from Aviemore Youth Hostel I make it about 25km by road through Coylumbridge to the ski centre car park then over Macdui and down to the Hutchison Memorial Hut. On days involving the amount of height gain you will have on this day, I normally try to keep my distance down to no more than 20km. It’s certainly possible to make your overnight stop in Aviemore and then get up and over Ben Macdui in a day – but it will be a seriously big day, and your pack is going to be heavy with resupply.

The party in Braemar is on the Saturday – so you need to take no more than 9 days to get there if you want to join in. This is why I think that you may want to rethink how much time you spend in the far West before heading East.

From Braemar to the Coast there are any number of good options. For a first timer, though, I would encourage you to go and have a look at Jock’s Road. There are some exceedingly fine things you can do with it. For instance, you can turn left over Fafernie (or take the path from Lochcallater Lodge up Carn an t-Sagairt Mor) then go over Carn a’ Choire Bhoidheach to Lochnagar, and down to Spittal of Glenmuick, then up to the Shielin of Mark bothy. From there you can head down to Tarfside, where you will find another Challenge party, and your route out to the coast should more or less suggest itself.

I hope all of this helps, and gives you some food for thought.

As this year is my 10th Challenge, I wanted to give myself a really special route. I wanted to fit in all of the following:

1. Torridon start
2. Drumnadrochit – Inverfarigaig boat crossing
3. Lairig Ghru
4. the ridge South South West of Morrone
5. at least 12 Munros and Corbetts (a “High Level” crossing) and
6. Lunan Bay finish

Well, I ended up with an excellent route; but it would take me 16 days to walk it (because of all the issues identified above with starting at Torridon but aiming to go South of Loch Monar). In the end, I abandoned the idea of a Torridon start, and I shall be starting at Dornie. I’ve managed to include all my other “must haves” – and I reckon 5 out of 6 isn’t bad.

I’ll look out for you in Braemar!

Yes, going east is ultimately what one has to do to finish but that's the beauty of the challenge - there are so many ways to accomplish that goal. What Niels has proposed as a route is ambitious and maybe circuitous, with the addition of Fort Augustus, but not impossible.

Niels, you might also consider the Munros to the north of Loch Mullardoch giving you great views (if lucky) of Carn Eighe before carrying on down into Glen Affric and Drumnadrochit.

As I've been told more than once by a Very Experienced Challenger, its your walk, enjoy it.

That's pretty much what I had in mind for my 16-day route: crossing the river Carron by the bridge at NG 048493 and taking the path over Na Meallanan Buidhe to Sgurr na Feartaig (a Corbett) and descending to an overnight stop at Bearnais Bothy (NG 021430) then heading up to the Bealach Bhearnais, over Beinn Tharsuinn (another Corbett) and Bidein a Choire Sheasgaich and Lurg Mhoir (both Munros) then East along the Meall Mor ridgs and down to Pait Lodge.

I wasn't aiming south of Loch Mullardoch, though - from Pait Lodge I was intending to get up onto the ridge North of Loch Mullardoch and do the four Munros An Socach - An Riabhachan - Sgurr na Lapaich and Carn nan Gobbhar, making a camp at Loch Tuil Bhearnach. I'm still aiming to do that ridge, actually - I'm just looking at getting onto it from Dornie via Iron Lodge, rather than Torridon via West Monar Forest.

And yes - I'm aiming for Drumnadrochit and a route through the Monadhliath to Aviemore, too ... but I shall be going through the Lairig Ghru, not over Ben Macdui.

Niels, for what you describe, you can't do much better than look at this:

Caburn Chamberlain's photo journal Torridon to Forvie Sands If you want to pack in a few Munros, this photo set is for you! I think this gives an excellent impression of a very rewarding Challenge. Absolutely superb photos there, but I reckon Caburn's route, and all those hills, will make for a pretty tough 12 days, if that's all you're allowing yourself.

There are plenty of blogs and so-on if you Google around - here are a few quick links that you might find useful.

Gayle & Mick 2011 - Strathcarron to St Cyrus 12 days.

My 2011 Challenge - Torridon to Arbroath. Not that adventurous, I'm afraid.

Gordon Green's 2009 Challenge Strathcarron to St Cyrus

Judith's Around The Hills blog for 2011 Torridon to Porthlethen.

Cheers, and happy planning!

Phil

Thank you for all the extensive replies both here and on email. Much appreciated and it has given me plenty of food for thought.

I will dig deep into the books and online ressources and see what route I come up with.

I hope to see all of you in May and have a beer with you.

Thanks

Niels

Here's the IP address of a video clip I found on You Tube with some footage of the River Ling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbPiPQc1qbc

He doesn't say where it is, exactly, but at a guess I'd say it's the waterfall at NG 941314 - so quite a bit further downstream than the crossing you're likely to be attempting

The River Ling is crossable at the outlet of Loch Cruoshie just north of the bothy at Maol Bhuide. It is quite deep but relatively slow flowing. The bogs on the north bank are pretty bad though.

If it was really wet, then it could certainly be impassable and trying to stay on the north bank to the N. f An Cruachan would be grim.

The crossing at Loch Cruoshie was impossible for a period during the 2011 Challenge. Having sought lots of advice I tried there, and further west, with poles just not finding the bottom about 3 metres out from the bank. I ended up walking nearly to Pait Lodge before finding a "safe" crossing. I was probably unlucky in reaching that crossing at its worst after heavy rain, and no doubt the water level sank a day or two later, but that can happen.

We crossed at the Right end in 2011 to get across to the bothy.
By the time we got there, the water was rising and several attempts were made in different places. At one point I was up to my waist and the silty mud felt dangerous so I backed out.
We finally got across with a bit of Physics and a leap of faith.
3 hours later I think it would have been a no go.
It was hard enough getting Mr Sloman across as it was.



What you cannot see from the picture is the fact that the jump was about 6', the deep bit was about 3' + deep and the water was moving like a train.
And the drop from the bank to the river base I was standing on was also about 3'
And the stones there were loose an slippery.

IT IS called a Challenge though!

If you want to read about it, then you can here TGOC 2011 Day 1