Hi,

Being a newcomer both on the board and the challenge we could use a helping hand getting the big picture. I say we, since I'm writing on the behalf of our group of three from Denmark. This will be the first challenge for all of us.

To the point. Could anyone of you veterans be kind enough to give us an overview, a list or otherwise, of all the typical social gatherings, meetup places, towns, pups, dates and so forth.

I take it that not all the 'usual' gatherings makes such grand invitations as the cheese and wine party.

Thanks

Michael

Hi Michael, and welcome to the Challenge!


You may well get off to a great start before you even reach your start point. You'll notice small gatherings of people wearing rucksacks in airports, train & bus stations and you'll notice that they're standing in the same queue as you. Say hello - they may well be Challengers. (Who else would be carrying rucksacks in the middle of the week looking all spick and span?)

There are gatherings at Glasgow Queen Street, London Euston Station, and all stations between, as burdened backpackers join the trains.

Then there are the fun train and bus rides to the start-point itself from Glasgow, Inverness and Fort William. By the time you get to your start point you'll have met a whole clutch of Challengers to spend the evening in the bar with.

The next morning you'll be setting out (with perhaps a muzzy head) and you're bound to bump into a whole new load of Challengers who had camped or had B&B's close by. There's a fair chance you'll bump into these folk at the most surprising places on your walk.

For towns and villages, there are the obvious pinch points along the Great Glen - Inverness, Drumnadrochit, Ft Augustus, Invergarry, Spean Bridge, and Fort William. You will not fail to find Challengers here - they are the folk carrying rucksacks, perhaps hobbling a little by now.

Every morning when you leave these places you'll bump into Challengers making their way in a generally easterly direction (but perhaps not if Lord Elpus had designed your route....) but this time they'll have come from different start points to your own.

The next pinch points happen along the A9 - Pitlochry, Blair Atholl, Dalwhinnie, Newtonmore, Kingussie, Kincraig, Aviemore and beyond!

By now you'll spot Challengers in chemists, with rucksacks half the size they started with (having posted tons of stuff home that was far too heavy) buying blister plasters and creams for chafing.

Then, if things are going to plan you'll find HORDES of dirty smelly Challengers limping about towns like Braemar (the Fife Arms is a safe bet), and Ballater. (The campsite will be heaving with Challengers)

If you're made of stern stuff you might find a wonderful party at LochCallater Lodge where cups of tea and kindnesses are doled out to sun-kissed Challengers.

Then there are parties at Clova, Tarfside (the Mason's and St Drostan's are wonderfully social places) before the walk to the east coast. There are always the odd hundred or so Challengers to be found at the campsite at Northwater Bridge. By now the blisters will have almost healed and people are far more perky - as they are only a day away from the coast!

And then there's the wonderful celebrations at the Park Hotel in Montrose.

Don't worry about which pubs to find and where - follow your nose - you'll find Challengers in every pub!

Of course there's the Cheese & Wine Party at the Water of Caiplich, where you and your friends will be very welcome indeed.

I hope this helps.

All the very best of luck with your planning - I hope we bump into each other somewhere along the walk.



LISTEN TO ME BOARD ADMINISTRATOR, WHOEVER YOU ARE!!!! THIS IS MY FOURTH ATTEMPT AT GETTING THESE BLASTED SECURITY CODE THINGS! GET THEM CHANGED >>>>> PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well doesn't THAT just take the biscuit.

I've just spent half an hour composing a careful, thoughtful response and fighting my way through the recognition code, and it said "spam detected" and refused to post it. It also took away the entire text, which I couldn't recover by hitting "back".

I think this spam detector needs sorting out before the letters do!!

At the risk of some controversy, can I inject just a smidgen of heresy here. Alan has done an excellent job of describing the social character of the Challenge and I have no disagreement with anything which he has said. If you enjoy the camaraderie of walking with others and joining in the many celebrations, doubtless you'll have a wonderful time. That's evidenced by the enthusiastic participation by so many folk year after year. The "Braemar - Tarfside" corridor has become legendary for good reason.

So the very social character of the event is important. Yet it isn't the only essential element of taking part. I enjoy meeting folk along the way but tend to avoid the hotspots such as Braemar. It's not that I'm anti-social as such but, given the choice between mass participation exuberant parties or spontaneous and more intimate gatherings in bothies or wild areas, I'll almost invariably opt for the latter. Perhaps I'm just shy, but give me a select bunch of like minded folk in a setting where you can hold a conversation without shouting rather than the boisterous atmosphere in the Fife. Nor, if I'm honest, can my body cope with regular copious infusions of alcohol! I've always thought that the message board rather overemphasises the big set-piece parties and one can gain the impression that attendance at these meetings is obligatory. I'll say this quietly but firmly - you do not HAVE to go through Braemar unless you want to.

There's another point, one which the promotional literature stresses but which becomes a little drowned sometimes in the noise and excitement of the board. The crossing is an adventure, an exploration, sometimes a stretching of your comfort zone. Personally, each new Challenge needs to include some country which I haven't visited before in order to offer me some excited anticipation of what's to come. I always enjoy poring over the maps at the planning stage and seeking out tracts of Scotland which are new. It doesn't always work out of course but it's usually fun to find that out along the way. The Trade Routes are fine, let me not disparage them, but for most experienced Challengers, the novelty factor just won't be there. And, for me at least, the walk needs to be genuinely challenging; though the element of challenge will be interpreted differently by folk according to experience and preference.

Finally, let me emphasise in the strongest terms that I'm not having a go at anyone here. Many (most?)will be content with the social crossings which they've relished for so many years and the appeal of that to new Challengers can't be denied. That's all perfectly fine and the main point is for folk to have fun. I simply want to redress the balance a little and perhaps open a debate. There are other ways to approach the Challenge, ways which don't always have a high profile on this forum.

There, I've said it. Let the brickbats fly!!



PS. CAN I EXPRESS MY COMPLETE AGREEMENT WITH ALL OF THOSE FOLK WHO'VE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE ANTI-SPAM CODE. I'M NOW ON AT LEAST MY 6TH ATTEMPT, WITH GOODNESS KNOWS HOW MANY MORE. THIS SYSTEM IS SEVERELY FLAWED

I agree totally with you Colin, but I was answering the question that Michael had posed:

"To the point. Could anyone of you veterans be kind enough to give us an overview, a list or otherwise, of all the typical social gatherings, meetup places, towns, pups, dates and so forth.

I take it that not all the 'usual' gatherings makes such grand invitations as the cheese and wine party."

Lord Elpus and I are often to be found miles from nowhere, with not a Challenger in sight. That's usually because of Lord E's navigation though...

No brickbats from me, either, Colin. Good points, well made, especially that many of the best and most memorable encounters are those that happen by pure chance. For me the Challenge will always be an adventure first; and yes, my comfort zone is often stretched - usually to breaking point.

Hi Colin , I believe our paths crossed around the Great Glen area 2007 - 9 . With regard to your posting problem . The protection link to copy as i recall was not " case sensitive" when i last used it in 2012 ish . Could this be your difficulty in posting .

Michael, I agree with Alan as well as Colin. A lot depends on your day of travel. For my first Challenge I started on Saturday and I didn't meet a single Challenger on the way to my starting point. At the end of day 3 I met the first fellow Challengers.

First of all, thanks for all the replies. It's very nice that everyone is willing to help.

The reason that I asked, were not in the attempt to make/do and social-route... but more to be able to make informed decisions when deciding on our route. First of all the idea is that we will make our own route. No copy n past. But while we are seeking wilderness and planning to wild camp along the way, we will try to fit our resupply points at places where we are likely to bump into fellow challengers.

Could we get away with it - we would select out start and end point.. and a general direction. Making the route along the way... But I guess that won't pass with the vetters

The social aspect, the stories and tales told over pints... be it in a booty or pup, is one of the strengths of the Challenge in our view. And definitely something we will facilitate in our route planning. If we were to seek solitude, we could opted for a trip to Sarek in Sweden, we're pretty sure we won't see another soul there. But that'll have to wait until 2016.

Again, thanks for all the replies. Hope to see all of you in May.

Regards.

For me, the "big picture" looks a bit like this.

A typical route consists of four distinct sections:

1. Start point to Great Glen crossing
2. Great Glen to the A9
3. A9 to Eastern edge of the Cairngorms
4. Eastern edge of the Cairngorms ot finish point

I always think about my routes in these stages. There are, of course, lots of exceptions and special cases. But this is the essential big picture. Taking these in turn ...

1. There are 13 start points. The most southerly two (Oban and Ardrishaig) are South of the Great Glen. All the others are North of it. There are only ten places you can cross the Great Glen. From the South they are Corran Ferry, Camunagaul Ferry, Corpach, Gairlochy, Bridge of Oich, Laggan Locks, Fort Augustus, Drumnadrochit (where a ferry crosses Loch Ness to Inverfarigaig), and Inverness. There's one other which I cannot remember offhand, and I may have Bridge of Oich and Laggan Locks in the wrong order. But that's esentially it. Only two or three of these crossing points make sense for each start point. So you may as well work out a route from your start point to each of the possible Great Glen crossings, before deciding which one you're going to do.

2. Great Glen crossing to A9 - much depends upon where you are. At Inverness, you have the choice of staying North (roads and costal walking) or heading into the Monadhliath. Drumnadrochit / Inverfarigaig means you need to cross the Monadhliaith for sure. Fort Augustus gives you the choice of heading into the Monadhliath or using the Corrieyairack pass. South of that but North of Gairlochy and you can go over the hills to the Corrieyairack, or over the hills into Glen Roy. From Gairlochy and Corpach you are looking at Glen Roy or Loch Treig. From Camusagail or Corran Ferry, you are probably either heading up Glen Nevis, or through the Mamores, or onot the West Highland Way for Kinlochleven. If you went through the Corrieyairack or anywhere North of it, then you are going to have to cross the river Spey as well as the A9 - and there are not that many bridges. So head for a town. Grantown on Spey, Aviemore, Carrbridge, Kingussie or Newtonmore. These towns are key to crossing the A9 AND the Spey. South of the Corrieyairack, the governing geographical feature is Loch Ericht. Stay Norht of it and it will usher you into Dalwhinnie. Go South of it, and you are likely to find yourself in Blair Atholl (although South of Blair there are other options ... Pitlochry and Dunkeld are not much visited by Challengers). If you started at Oban or Ardrishaig then the challenges here are a bit different .. and probably include Rannoch Moor.

3. After the A9, the question is how you are dealing with the Cairngorm Massif. There are, essentially, 5 options: (1) skirt it to the North, and probably end up in Tomintoul; (2) skirt it to the South, and probably end up at Spittal of Glenshee (where the hotel shown on your map is now just a mess of charred and twisted metal); (3) go "over the top" and bag a few fine Munros; (4) take one of the great clefts through it (the Lairig Ghru and Glen Tilt); (5) link the Feshie and the Geldie, and probably end up with very wet feet. If you take options 3, 4 or 5 then you will almost certainly fetch up in Braemar, and possibly Ballater as well.

4. Finally, you have your route to the coast. North of the Dee you will have rather more road walking ahead of you, but there are some fine finish points North of Aberdeen. From Ballater there is the Deeside way - two or three days' easy walking on old railway track bed into Aberdeen (or branch off at Banchory and follow the Slug Road to Stonehaven). South of Aberdeen is the Fetteresso Forest - abandon hope all ye who enter here! South of that, and you're in the Angus Glens. Glen Esk, Glen Lethnott, Glen Clova, Glen Prosen, Glen Isla. Most Challengers emerge from one of these, or walk the ridges between them. Beyond that, it's a day and a half to two and a half days (depending upon your route) through the agricultural belt. Mostly road walking, but there are a few nice little paths and riverside walks to be found if you go looking for them. The last big hazard is the A90. This is a HORRIBLE road to cross. If you can find a road which crosses it on (or under) a bridge, choose this for preference.

Choose your finish point carefully, always remembering that you then have to get to Montrose. There is a good bus service between Aberdeen and Montrose, calling at all the coastal villages. And there is a railway lin eserving some of them, albeit rather less frequently. Stray into more remote parts, though, and you may still have some walking ahead of you (not too bad from St Cyrus or Scurdie Ness ... but quite a big ask from Rumness, say.

Hope this all helps ... and do please post any particular questions you may have as you plan your route. For all that it's wilderness, there are very few parts of it that haven't been visited by several people on this board!

I divide my walk into the same sections as Jeremy. In fact, I think of it as 4 walks, each lasting about 3 days. For me this is an important part of managing what goes on in my head. The Challenge is not just physical or navigational but also tests resilience and staying power when it's cold and wet and I'm tired and wondering why I set out on this thing in the first place. Saying to myself at moments like that: "I'll be somewhere with lights and warmth the day after tomorrow, so I'll just carry on till then and then I can stop if I want to" stops me feeling overwhelmed. Then when I get there, I say: "well, I'll just do the next bit" and so I fool myself to getting to the east coast!

On the social vs wilderness question, there are as many answers as there are Challengers and that is one of the joys of it. Personally,I like to walk alone and wild camp alone. I am always pleased to meet people on the way, but rarely hook up with anyone for any length of time. When I come down to the crossing points, though, I head straight for the pub and seek out the Challengers. But the walk tests me physically and so I can't drink heavily one night and still walk the next day. I wish I could, though! :)

And, Michael, a pup is a baby dog (seal, elephant, ....). A pub has the beer! :)

Trying to post for the second time .....

Very impressed by Jeremy's comprehensive geography lesson. But may I gently remind folks that the lovely highland village of Kincraig also has a crossing across the Spey (where you might see ospreys), and where you will definitely get a warm welcome.

Hello Michael

As a fellow would be Challenger from Denmark. I am curious as to how you know, that you and your group are already accepted for the Challenge.

Myself I have not heard anything yet, so I guess that unfortunately I am not in.

Best of luck to you and your group.

Regards
Niels

First of all, thanks for all the replies.

And to you Niels.
We don't know. Sorry if we gave that impression. That wasn't intended. Of cause we are all hoping... and 'frustrated', waiting to hear something from Ali and Sue.

Hope to see you in May. Speaking of May and you being a fellow dane. How are you planning to travel to Scotland? Just curious. We have looked at flying and driving (through the tunnel), since the ferry from Esbjerg to UK aren't an option anymore.

Have a look at driving to IJmuiden (15k west from Amsterdam) and using the DFDS night ferry to Newcastle. You'll be in the Highlands at noon next morning.