I agree pdf forms would be easier for us but you don't have to printout the pdf files. On a mac, I don't know about PC as I don't have one, you can type direct on to the pdf file in Preview. If you don't have Office word files can be a problem. Programs such as Open Office and Pages will open the word files but the formatting is all over the place with the document spreading onto a third page.

Ian C.

"On a mac, I don't know about PC as I don't have one, you can......."

If I'd got a fiver for every conversation that had ended with those words I'd be able to buy a Mac now. Almost. I expect you've got Adobe Creative Suite installed Ian? And does it include Adobe Acrobat Pro? Might this be enabling Adobe Reader to edit files, or are you actually editing them in Acrobat Pro?

http://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/fill-out-pdf-form-or.html

If it is just a Mac thing, TGO magazine almost certainly use Macs, and it's more than likely that a Mac is being used at Challenge HQ. They probably don't know that us (well actually I'm not in next year's Challenge) mere mortals aren't able to fill the pdf forms in easily.

Ian, if you have got Acrobat Pro, I wonder if it could save the Word or pdf file as a pdf form enabling others to fill it out on their computers? Spirit of the Challenge and all that sort of thing.

John

No John I don't have any of that Adobe stuff and I'm not sure why you would assume I do. The only Adobe programs I have are Lightroom, which I got free with a camera and Photoshop Elements, provided by my employer, which I teach a course on. For typing on the pdf route sheet, I use Preview, as I said in my original post, which comes pre-installed on the mac.

My point was that you can type on the current pdf route sheets without printing them out. I did a quick google search and found this article which list several free programs that can do the same thing on a PC. Obviously I can't vouch for any of them because I don't run windows.

Ian C.

Hi Ian, I only thought you might have Adobe Creative Suite as I'd class you as a professional photographer and I know many pros use Photoshop. Indeed, my two nieces who are studying photography at university have been told they'll have to get at least a basic knowledge of Photoshop at some stage.

Yes, I misunderstood about Preview - not being familiar with Macs I assumed it was a command in the Mac version of Adobe Reader or Acrobat not a stand alone program.

Thanks for the article. I think the user installing special software isn't really an answer though.

Anyway, the whole thing was only a passing thought.

John

Quick query – I'd no idea that PDFs could be overwritten as a form. We tried this a couple of years ago - the tech expert at Newsquest tried to create something along these lines – but we got nowhere.

You're right, John, I use a Mac and created the forms on a Mac - the PDF is nothing more than a PDF of the Word doc, of course.

My version of Preview doesn't allow me to overwrite on to a PDF though.

FYI, Word and printable PDFs were chosen as the most commonly used bits of software. When you think-on that there'll have been between 300 and 400 routes vetted by the end of the process, it's important to keep it nice and simple!

We also have a small number of Challengers who still don't use email or computers comfortably (if at all) so the more ubiquitous the software the better…

Ian C.: assume you're using as more up-to-date version of Preview than mine (version 4.1)? Or is there a function I ought to know about but don't (yet).

John

pdf form are pretty much the same as regular pdfs except that the text boxes can be filled in on the computer by anybody with Adobe Reader (most computers), saved, and emailed. Easy. No special software or skills required by the Challenger, in fact it's easier because there's no printing required and the formatting can't be altered. The vetters get to read printed text instead of cramped handwriting too.

A lot of government forms are available as pdf forms as well as regular printed forms. For instance this link will download a Lasting Power of Attorney form:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/245566/LPA117_Property_financial_affairs_LPA.pdf

Adobe Acrobat is the "posh" software for creating pdf forms, but there are less expensive alternatives:

http://www.bluebeam.com/us/trials/extreme/index.asp?src=1133&gclid=CO2RsufvyroCFSrJtAodd1UA8g

"Create and distribute PDF forms with text fields, buttons, check and list boxes, digital signature fields and more."

And Google will turn up more options.

Having said all that and made myself out to be an expert I have to admit that I've never done this myself, but how hard can it be?

John

Aye, but the problem is finding a piece of software that will allow me to create the tailored forms in the first place, before they're turned into a PDF. Word isn't perfect but formatting it as a PDF comes after creating the Word document, if you get my drift…

If you can show me how to do that, I'm all ears as it will make everything so much easier for next year!

I've just recently taken over as joint MO for Glencoul Bothy (yes - picked one of the best ones - really good excuse to go off piste!) and have discovered all their forms (and there are lots) are of the write-on-able pdf type. Very easy to use, and I didn't need to download any special software to use it, but I hadn't come across it before either. I am running Windows XP so not exactly modern. Maybe you could contact them, John, as another small organisation, as to how they set it up.

Vanessa

Many thanks John and Vanessa… I think I'm getting somewhere online. Adobe Acrobat Pro is a tad expensive but as John suggests there do seem to be some free alternative out there… Suspect the MBA will have a copy of AAPro but may well investigate.

Watch this space (well, watch next year's space…)