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Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I argee with Alans last comment ! But little prior, which he has been made aware of personally. My point is be aware of the extent of your whole task , not the bits inbetween which may give you difficulties . I hope Alan will not question this .

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

William

I would have liked to have emailed you this message privately, but the email address you give on here is not a proper address, so this will have to be done in public.

I really don't understand your continual small-minded jibes. It was only February last year when you were equally unpleasant. That was quite late at night too. Is it that time of the evening again?

You have yet to apologise (publicly) for your last little hissy-fit. I accepted your private apology some time ago, but now you continue. It now seems obvious that you weren't sorry at all.

Give it up, please, William or don't post on here when you are p*ssed.


Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

alan.sloman
Hi Vicky

I am not quite sure what our William meant there, but it's doubtful that the Central Highlands snow cover will have melted before we arrive. There is still ice and snow plastered all over the Torridon hills today: Full winter conditions up top.

The important thing about the Challenge is getting all the way across from coast to coast. In one piece.



And having a great time whilst doing it. If there are sections where you know you'll definitely be going high, then you'll be best advised to take what you would normally take in these circumstances and be safe. You can post the stuff home afterwards when carrying on with lower level routes.




What are you taking Alan?

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

hi Robert , I have managed 6 crossing , Alan many more . What is your count out of curiosity you do not say .

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Robert
What are you taking Alan?


Hi Robert

I would like to take whatever our William seems to be on. It seems to be working for him....

***

I'll be in my big leather boots and gaiters, as Lord Elpus has us marching all over some bloomin' great hills this year and we can't argue, as it's his tenth.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Hi Vicky , I am sorry your original post hast been spoilt . My only point was the difficulty in achieving a complete crossing in the time alloted .

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Alan Sloman , drop it and stop using an enjoyable site of usefull info as your personnel nit piick . We may meet on the Cairngormms where your diatrieb may meet a usefull end . Adiu

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

howden. william
Alan Sloman , drop it and stop using an enjoyable site of usefull info as your personnel nit piick . We may meet on the Cairngormms where your diatrieb may meet a usefull end . Adiu


Deary me! I would take more water with it, Bill...

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Thanks Alan, I think you're right. Just the thought of wearing stiff winter boots for most of the crossing didn't appeal...and was thinking about ways round this...but maybe I just have to accept that there isn't! Safety first and all that....
Best wishes
Vicky

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Thats good Vicky view the whole picture .

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Sorry Vicky - your post seems to have provoked a playground debate - no doubt they'll all calm down once they've left their start points. Good luck with your Challenge - it's meant to be fun!
PS Snow down to 500m on the Feshies, Cairngorms and Monadhliath- can see them all from my house.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Mornin' Val!

John

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

For me it's not about ice axe and winter boots but whether to take my Kahtoola microspikes. And whether it will be too cold for trail shoes. Anybody got some considered feedback for a first timer?

Sounds like the rivers will be full so crossing and getting full boots dry is going to be a problem.

Maybe too late to order but these are good value for winter use

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New-Portable-8-Teeth-Camping-Climb-Ice-Crampon-Ice-Walking-Cleat-/200767381228?pt=UK_Sporting_Goods_Climbing_Mountaineering&hash=item2ebeab1eec

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

We carried and used Kahtoola microspikes on TGOC 2010 Robert. Last year, neither the spikes or crampons would have been of assistance on Lurg Mhor as snow very loose and just came away from the hill, so modified our plans considerably!

I put some comments about trail shoes/sealskinz combinations in wet, cold conditions on the 'socks & trailshoes' post just the other day!

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Yes if it is too soft for spikes then it will be soft enough to kick steps with what ever you are wearing on your feet if needed.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I will decide the day before leaving on what combination of axe and crampons to take if needed. Trail shoes and flexible crampons work fine. No boots needed.

My light axe and crampons are 900g in total. Not a lot to take to be able to get high on snow clad summits. The views will be superb this year with so many snow topped summits.

If you cannot use an ice axe and crampons, as well as navigate in snow covered terrain stick to the glens is my advice.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Martin Rye
If you cannot use an ice axe and crampons, as well as navigate in snow covered terrain stick to the glens is my advice.


Oooh Martin! You're so.... masterful!

*swoon*


Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

About time you noticed Alan but if the snow is too bad you could take a might work

PS if you're not taking your spikes lend them to me as they are half the weight of my crampons.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

At the moment, my Kahtoolas are in my parcel for Tulloch so we can nip over the two Munros to the 1st Cheese & Wine Party. If Lochnagar is clear (still doubtful) they'll be posted home from Braemar.

A snow report by this Friday would be handy, as that's when I'm posting my parcel.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

There's a April 27th trip report for Sgorr na Diollaid in Glen Cannich on walkhighlands that has some top photos of the surrounding hills.

http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31105

Still a lot of snow up there. Someone turn on the heater...

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

If those picture are representive of heights over 1000m in the Cairngorms then it looks fine.

But I am guessing there is more snow in the Cairngorms

http://www.winterhighland.info/cams/cairngorm-mountain/

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I am now beginning to get seriously worried.
If Challengers, new or old, have to ask the sort of questions appearing in this thread maybe they should first ask themselves "Do I have the necessary skills and experience to take on the challenge I am setting myself?"
I can't give even a considered opinion as to whether your feet are going to get cold, we all run at differing metabolic rates. If anyone appears on here and tells you you won't have cold feet I would question their judgement!
"Is it too cold for trail shoes?" For me yes but many others will trip across in trail shoes getting wet feet every day and have no problems. It's an experiment I would not like to try on a high level route this year.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I understand your concern grumps, but asking a question is not necessarily a reflection of a lack of experience or skill. I've done plenty of winter mountain walking and a number of long distance routes, (In Scotland and other places) - I just haven't had the need to put the two together before and was just asking the experience of other challengers - you could call it thinking aloud. I always go by the philosophy of ask the question and risk sounding stupid than not to ask it at all as it might benefit others too.

All I wanted to know was if people had a route that was a mixture of low level and high routes whether they would look to do the whole route in their stiff winter boots or had they found other solutions for the need for two different types of footwear....With some of the comments this thread appears to be attracting, I wish I'd never blimmin started it!

I'll get off my soap box now.....

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

"Don't worry, be happy"

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I'm as chilled as the top of a Scottish mountain!

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Mr. Grumpy.My sentiments entirely. The questions that regularly appear
on the TGO website leave questions has to the competence and
knowledge of some of the people taking part. Hard but it needs
to be said .Cheers.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

I have to say that I'm disappointed by the attitude of some of these responses. Fortunately, I have robust self esteem and a confidence in my skills to not feel undermined or belittled, but as a 'first timer', I had hoped for a more welcoming and thoughtful responses (Thanks to those who have been either on here or via email) in keeping with the reputation TGO has. All this does is encourage people not to ask questions and, personally, I feel that's a shame.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

This will probably meet with disapproval from both the light and heavy brigades, but I've found that when walking high-level in May when I might still encounter winter conditions, Asolo lightweight boots are stiff enough to kick a few steps when necessary, but pleasanter to wear than my full winter boots: likewise an ultra-light Camp walking axe and crampons, really designed for ski-mountaineering, are reassuring to have "just in case" in a snowy Scottish spring; obviously I wouldn't plan to tackle a grade II gully with them. The axe is about 400gms and the crampons 500gms; at present the axe is in the "taking" pile and the crampons in the "maybe" pile. It's useful to read the comments of those living further north about snow conditions, particularly as D-day approaches.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Can I second Marion's appeal.......Val, would you be so kind as to give us an update on visible snow level about three days before the off?

One year when there was a late dump of snow followed by heat, I carried axe & crampons (not so light as yours, sadly) all the way and never needed them.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

The whole debate about whether to take ice axe and crampons on one's Challenge route revolves around a number of issues which should be considered together:

1. The amount and state of the snow - e.g. is it fresh snow over hard neve? Is it ice covering rocks? What are the slope angles and is there any avalanche potential?

2. What are the prevailing weather conditions? Blizzards, sunshine, calm, windy, stormy?

3. What is the winter experience of the individual proposing to ascend high under winter conditions?

4. Has the individual developed and practiced the skills of correctly using ice axe and crampons? Can the individual actually arrest a slide or a fall on a snow (or ice) slope? It's amazing how many people simply do not know or have not practiced the correct use of the hardware they carry. Practising arrest skills under controlled conditions is essential before heading upwards with ice axe in hand.

5. Has the individual had experience (under controlled conditions) of moving and navigating in a white out ? If one lacks the necessary experience and skills for safe and competent progress under these conditions, they can be a real killer.

6. Carrying basic winter gear is fine for day ascents from a fixed base, but it takes real effort and determination to carry such hardware plus food, tent, stove, clothes etc on a multi day continuous trip.


As someone who has 40 years of winter ice climbing experience in Scotland (Ben Nevis, Glencoe, Cairngorms), plus snow and ice climbing / mountaineering in the Alps, Caucasus and Himalaya, I shall not be carrying ice axe and crampons on TGOC13. Carrying such gear adds weight to one's load which may compromise completion of a successful crossing. The time constraints of TGOC13 do not make it an event for engaging in serious winter mountaineering. If full winter conditions do prevail on the higher hills, we will not be nipping over any Munros to show how tough we are. Instead, we will simply stick to the glens, lower hills and easier passes. For us, it's about getting across safely within the time available, without having to carry too much excess hardware. We have done enough serious winter mountaineering to appreciate the limitations dictated by imposed time constraints.

Last year, whilst mountaineering in the Alps, we safely and efficiently traversed 2500m snow blocked passes using only our trekking poles. It all comes down to experience, being aware of prevailing conditions and actually knowing how to correctly use the gear you carry.

As a final thought, it may be swollen rivers we all have to cope with if the temperatures rise and the snow cover starts to melt.

Stuart

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Stuart, I would like to strongly support all the points you make.

I would like to point Challengers to the Sport Scotland Avalanche Information pages http://www.sais.gov.uk/index.asp. The fact that they have extended their forecasts until now indicates that there is a serious risk. The next forecast will be on Friday 3rd May. Other very useful information about snow conditions is available on the forecaster’s blog sites.

If you don’t have the training and experience to navigate in winter conditions and to judge avalanche risk, then please just don’t go there. We have already had too many avalanche deaths in Scotland this winter.

I would like to wish everyone a safe and enjoyable crossing!

Emma

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Top reply Stuart.

Hope to see you chaps on route somewhere

Nuff said.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

A1 reply Stuart could not agree more if its bad stay of the tops
and use a bit of common ???

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Yes, well said & very sensible, but I think most of us are thinking only of a little bit of snow near the tops of otherwise clear hills, in lovely clear weather - like those pictures in the Walkhighlands report someone mentioned earlier.

I certainly have no intention of going up into full winter/avalanche territory: I do have winter climbing experience but I agree the full safe kit for such activities doesn't feel like what the Challenge is about. Seems to me this discussion relates (or did at first) to limited areas of those indeterminate, in-between conditions that you may not even know about until you're up there, or that may arise anew during the trip.

Pre-departure weather reports from "on the spot" are really useful.

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

hi Jean

Will update as we go along next week. Snow's melting fast at the moment although the Cairngorm summits are still plastered of course, especially Braeriach. No snow on Meall a' Buachaille (810m) at all today. Feshies and Monadhliath now looking normal snow cover for the time of year.

All of this means that the burns will be in full spate - wouldn't want to be crossing the Fords of Avon today.

Good luck to all for your final preparations.

Val

PS When I did my first Challenge(1997) this forum didn't exist, and I met nothing but friendship and kindness along the way. Well I must have enjoyed it, because I did 9 more and might not be finished yet. So if there are any firsttimers getting a negative picture of other challengers, don't worry, there all lovely in the flesh - well, nearly all....

Re: Crampons, Ice Axes & ?

Well, if the weather we have had today in Wales hits Scotland we will soon be debating what factor sun cream we are going to need on the Challenge and whether we will need a Tilley Hat or not. And remember folks, stay hydrated out there.