Hello Fair,

Yes I am opposed to both roads.

Firstly the A5225:
The proposed road will travel in between two of the Wigans Flashes. Our very own beautiful Nature Reserve area. Thousands of residents will be subject to a dual carriage-way right next to their quiet homes.

I have spoken to some residents from Helmsmanns Way and seen first hand the level of disruption the road would cause. It is a quiet area and I was even accosted by a hungry swan! The pollution, noise and destruction of natural habitat would be disastrous for this area.

The stretch of canal from the lock to the bridge at the end of Scotsmans Flash is one of the best places in the borough. It would be a shame to build a dual carriage-way over it.

I was told by council officer John Rosbotham that the reason for the road was to alleviate traffic on Poolstock Rd. If Poolstock Rd was clear of traffic, drivers would use it. What about traffic aiming for Martland Park?
It comes as no coincidence to me that the road leads to Westwood Business Park development. (Might I add that the Public Presentation for Westwood was just 6 days ago , giving the residents little time to have their say. Deadline is today.)

The (so called ) Northern By-pass:

The government inspectors report regarding the NBP maintains that only Bryn Rd would benefit from its development. I totally agree.

Think about it , which traffic would use a road from Woods Lane ( off Bolton Rd) to Landgate Junction?

Before I go into my own analysis of the road , I would love to hear suggestions of how anyone thinks that the road would be of benefit.

Just one example: If you live in Golborne and want to get to the M6 , which way would you go?

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

PS Just because I dont have an alternative does not mean that there isn't one.

Like I have said before , why dont we look at places in Europe that successfully solved traffic problems without building new major roads.

My concerns are for the people of our area, not economic development. I would gladly pay more Council Tax if it would put an end to the environmental vandalism that is currently being passed by a so called "GREEN" council.

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

Hi,
It looks to me as though the new dual carriageway does not actually cut between the flashes, but passes just north of both Scotman's and Pearson's before turning north at Westwood to link up with Chapel Lane. In my opinion, that means is misses some of the best parts of the area, and only affects a less attractive part of the flashes/canalside area.
...But, you do have a point when you say they seem to be building the A5225 anyway, but in little pieces. I wondered what that new bit of road near Goose Green Club was for...now we know...!
The council shows some plans at http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/GettingAbout/HighwayDesign/A49LinkRoadProposal.htm

Cheers,
Phil

Town: Hawkley Hall

Your Wrong Phil. The road DOES cut through the flashes because there is a small flash right in front of Helmsmans Way and another one across the canal from the football field which would be cut off from the main flashes and its all part of the so-called conservation area. Also the road would slice through the council house estate. What a prospect!!. Finally the new road by the Labour club has nothing to do with any by-pass ,that is merely an access road to the Enterprise park on the old Pemberton Colliery site and beyond that is a new housing estate.

Town: Stubshie

Hi Andrede

“Only the people of Bryn Road would benefit by the Northern bypass” you wrote.

In actual fact the people of Bryn Road would have benefited by Patrick Properties original road plan, I along with many others in Bryn Road joined your objections because we did not like the idea of subjecting the people of Bolton Road to what we have been suffering for twenty five years and more.

I like you want to preserve green spaces, but I think we must realise that Ashton’s current level of polluting traffic can not be solved without some form of bypass. As for the position throughout the Wigan area some form of bypass is required.

What would also would be nice is an apology for the money wasted over the years by a lack of coherent planning on our road system by WMBC.

I still hope that the residents of Ashton can work together to bring a peaceful (traffic wise) and prosperous town.

Best Regards
Alan

PS to Fairplay
Name etc no cloak of Anonymity

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

As Ray has pointed out, the road DOES "cut through" because the road separates Pearsons Flash from Westwood Flash.

The link to the Council Map kindly provided by Phil conveniently DOES NOT show Westwood Flash or the pond in front of Helmsmanns Way.

I agree with you Alan that something has to be done with the roads. Do you not find it a little strange that every road the council suggests is one that leads to an Industrial Estate or Business Park?

As I said in an earlier post, I would love to hear suggestions regarding which traffic would actually use the proposed (now scrapped) Northern By-Pass.

One example : If you live in Platt Bridge and want to get to the M6 , which route would you take?

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

Hi,
Yes, it seems the council's map does not show the two smaller flashes you mentioned. Maybe that's deliberate, to fool people (it worked with me). Thanks for correcting me. Google Earth shows it all quite well. I still don't think the 'main' part of the Flashes site will be affected too badly, though. I wonder what the council's rangers think?
Stubshie, thanks for your correction, but I can't see how the new road would slice through the council estate...which estate? It would separate WM North (where the tall flats used to be) from the older WM housing estate, but there's already a big gap between them, isn't there.
Also, the new A49 extension WILL mean using the new road near GGLC, if you want to access Little Lane. And that runs along a line similar to one that would be used by the A5225, from near Pem Station. Unless I'm wrong again!
I wish I could have got to the meeting at Hawkley School now...
Cheers,
Phil

Hi Mr,Miss,Mrs,Ms Fairplay,

If you are attending tonights meeting of MAD Feb 15 2007 19.30hrs @ Stubshaw Cross Labour Club could you please wear a red rose so we know who you are.

Alan
ps you will know me, I am a very young looking 79, and that can't be bad, except I am 60!!

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

Hi
To all who didn't attend the MAD meeting, you missed-another excellent presentation by Vic, thank you.
And a well managed question and answer session after.
Also once again, although they allowed question from councillors they managed as far s was humanly possible to keep it "non political"
On the down side i was sorry to hear they are opposed to the "Northern bypass" as things stand at the moment as a resident of Bryn Road for thirty nine years the various plans put forward would mean less traffic for us.Non the less for the greater good a Northern bypass I believe is beneficial to the majority.OK there is a danger of ribbon development along it,which would be most unwanted. After all Ashton is full!! I would ask you to bear in mind there will always be slight differences of opinion amongst groups of people but the goal of oppoosing any new development in Ashton must not be sidelined by these differences.
To conclude CAP, Labour or Independant or sick of politics, WE DONT WANT ANY NEW DEVELOPMENTS!!!
Alan
PS were you there Fairplay?

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

Thanks for the comment Alan its appreciated. Living in Bryn I also understand your comments re the Northern By-pass and the fact that there will always be some difference of opinion.

Kind regards

Town: Bryn

Hi
A rainy afternoon at the Stubshaws and about fifty people brave the rain to protest about the sale of The Ashton and Linnen Woolstock Charity Land and to hand a petition to Ian McCartney.
I had an interesting talk with Ray, regarding the charity, being a little like Fairplay I said I understood the dillema the charity was in as regards the land as they had a duty to maximise their assets.
Come on Ray tell us the position as it is, please.
I believe the road we went down is a public right of way and even with todays inclement weather the area was very tranquil an somewhat a green oasis and such a short distance from the busy road.
I would recommend a walk down this road. BUT beware of the dogs they apperently bite, so the notice said on the gate which I suppose can be closed to bar access.
Alan

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

Hi Alan, It was nice to meet you today.
With regard to the Charity I started my investigation last June and I have spent hours,weeks and months in my research and I have been adamant from day one that the Charity are NOT the legal owners of the Stubshaws, At our meeting I asked them to produce the original deed Without which they cannot sell the land. They admitted they don,t have it. Neither do they have any deed of sale dated 1720.
Can you sell your house without proof of ownership?
I have located the place where the 1630 John Launder deeds are so watch this space....Regards.Ray

Town: Stubshie

Alan

RE:"WE DONT WANT ANY NEW DEVELOPMENTS!!! "

I am confused . You are in favour of a Northern By-pass but dont want new developments?

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

As I asked in an earlier post ... can anyone give any suggestions as to which existing traffic would use the proposed Northern By-pass?

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

Traffic travelling from Bamfurlong, Stubshaw Cross, Platt Bridge, Ince, Golborne, Abram, Hindley and other points east to Landgate, Marus Bridge and Winstanley?

- David -

That is an hypothetical answer to an hypothetical question because the northern bypass is not going to happen.Not now,not ever.
I have a letter from Wigan Metro Planning stating exactly that .
For one, it would have spilled out onto the already busy junction of Bolton Rd,/GolborneRd. and so that could hardly be called a `Bye-Pass` except to people on Bryn Rd. and for two it would wipe out the Stubshaw Cross Heritage Garden which when finished will be the pride of our village and woe betide anyone who tries to do that.

Town: Stubshie

Hi
This is getting busy I missed all these posts.
Okay the northern bypass isn't going to happen. Most likely Patrick properties will look for pastures new.

So what are we left with, "GRIDLOCK IN ASHTON" like the H bomb however much we abhor the effects of vehicular traffic we can't "disinvent" it.

Whilst most of the UK has built bypasses WMBC has spent vast sums of money on roads to nowhere. I don't give a **** who is to blame if it is Labour New or Old CAP or even the Monster Raving Loony Party fault , whilst the traffic clogs up our Victorian road system your children and my grand children are being polluted with untold pollutants.

So cards on the table I want the A5225 I want a bypass all round Ashton, a four way junction at the Cranberry.

One interesting point (well at least I think so) What town on earth would proudly boast the largest private housing estate, plus another estate joining it and a restricted motorway access.

I am trying hard not to get bitter, but forty years ago I bought a house in Bryn Road, I
accepted that my windows would shake due to Kwik Save Traffic, because it brought jobs. I accepted that motor bikes would roar round the race track and some idiot would scream out on a PA because it would bring enjoyment to people.

SO IF A NORTHERN BYPASS ONLY HELPS BRYN ROAD.
TOUGH, WHO WILL BUY MY HOUSE WITH ALL THAT NOISE?

ALAN

PS I am now off to bed and at 3.40 tomorrow morning I will be able to do something unique-------- travel on an empty Ashton road.

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

With respect to DM :
I was rather looking for traffic that is not local families going from Golborne to see Auntie Pam in Landgate.

I was thinking of the traffic (Industrial or business) trying to get to the M6.

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

But David, surely traffic is traffic, no matter what reason the drivers have for being on the road? And you are ignoring the journeys of local and other businesses who need to get from east Wigan to the Marus Bridge area and vice versa.

In the end it would take a detailed traffic survey to establish the traffic flow along this route, so we are just speculating. But a fact is that Ashton is choc-a-bloc with traffic needing an alternative east-west route through Wigan. Like Alan, I am concerned that my children and grandchildren have to put up with standing traffic pollution in the town centre. You are keen to protect Stubshaw Cross, but do you accept that other people are as keen to protect their local area?

- David -

Hi David

I would like to make it clear that I am as keen to protect Stubshaw Cross just as much as I am keen to protect Bryn, Landgate,Ashton Heath, the Wigan Flashes, the Three Sisters and any other area that is subject to inappropriate development.

I totally agree that Ashton has a traffic problem and that something needs to be done. But I believe that something needs to be done that is not detrimental to the quality of residents lives. Or is environmentally damaging.

I am sure that with a little thought these conditions can be met.

However, please consider this:

1. The Northern By-pass strangely coincides with development of an Industrial Estate.(Sapphire)

2. The section of the A5225 that cuts through the Flashes strangely enough coincides with the development of a business park.(Westwood)

I may be mad but Im not dumb enough to not recognise that these roads are just to serve over-development and NOT traffic relief.

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

Hi -

"1. The Northern By-pass strangely coincides with development of an Industrial Estate.(Sapphire)

2. The section of the A5225 that cuts through the Flashes strangely enough coincides with the development of a business park.(Westwood)"

Why do you find it strange? Developers are expected to fund the infrastructure rather than the taxpayer. As things stand, I can't see the developers funding a north east bypass because of the cost.

- David -

Hi David

I find it strange because we are told that the primary purpose of both these roads is to relieve traffic, when it is clearly not.

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross

I presume that the Council has an overall plan for desired traffic routes that relieve congestion. If a proposed development provides a part of a route at no cost to the taxpayer, then the Council will tend to approve it, providing it meets other criteria.

I am an outsider by all accounts today but i have read the statements put forward. I would like to ask three questions...
1)Why are HGVS transporting (exporting and importing)stock thorough OUR roads? Have cost effective unessenial products and produce become an entity of labour OR raw supply think ASHTON MALL I can't wait...
2)Does anyone understand the Baleric Effect.?
3) Is de mon able and willing enough to
consider the source of an easy solutia.com

Town: Stoke on trent

Hi
Lets go back to the original proposal from Patrick Properties, what would the end result have been?
Certain houses would have been blighted with an entrance to an industrial estate, other houses would have been blighted by the same industrial estate.
However certain houses were already blighted with these two things and a new entrance may well have led to a decrease in traffic for them. As I live in Bryn Road I could well have benefited from Patrick Properties proposals.
However I have no wish to see other people suffer what we already do suffer, so I have willingly given my support to the objections.
The status quo as regards roads in Ashton is not an option for the people of Bryn Road, so when there is any talk of a Northern bypass should anyone be surprised that I support it? Just imagine if the development had gone ahead as proposed, wouldn’t the people affected have welcomed a road to relieve the traffic?
We must be united to achieve a reduction to the unacceptable burden of traffic in Ashton, but that I believe must involve everyone looking at the problem from all angles.
Sorry about The Stubshaw Cross Park, but I don’t see how preserving that is going to diminish the pollution I and my fellow residents suffer every day.
Alan
PS The diesel fumes are having their effect, can I have a translation of the previous posting?

Town: Bryn Road Car & Lorry Park

Hi Alan,

Dont ask for a translation of the previous post. It was one of my freinds who now lives in Stoke (used to live in Ashton). We had too many beers after the Liverpool game and I didnt understand what he was on about and I was sitting next to him!!!!!

Town: Ashton

At the presentation at Hawkley Hall School I was passed onto the Environmental Corespondant . I asked him what he personally thought about the development .

" I dont actually work for the council , I am contracted"

He answered no questions on the environmental impact on the flashes. His answer was mitigation. Sound Barriers (new trees).A cycle path.

When I asked why are there no Sound Barriers facing Scotsmans Flash , I was told that the drivers on the new dual-carriageway could enjoy the view of the flash whilst driving..

I laughed. I had to.

Andrede

Town: Stubshaw Cross