Dear Mr David Mckendrick

From your previous 2 posts are we to assume that if you are not one and the same as 'Ballstotennis'then you are at the very least the person behind the 'Ballstotennis' website?

If as he has stated Mr Franzen reports these matters to The Information Commissioners Office and to the Greater Manchester Police then there can be little doubt that the truth will be revealed.

I am confused as to to why your messages are addressed to Mr Franzen as you have banned him, logically he would be unable to read them. Or have I missed something?

Yours sincerely

Paul

David Mckendrick has no connection with www.ballstotennis.tk.

Your right, the only way to find this out will be to start legal proceedings.

Many thanks
BTT

Dear Paul,

That message wasn't addressed to me, but I feel the need to comment anyway.

The Balls to Tennis website is organised by youths in Ashton who want a skate park. If you report it to the Police, and they actually feel the need to investigate (which I doubt) that is what they will find. If you want to make fools of yourselves and waste police time, that's up to you. In fact, it'll be quite funny seeing that particular truth be outed, then you and your tired bunch will have absolutely nothing to go on. What will your excuse be then?!

Furthermore, I find it highly hypocritical that Peter Franzen can report anyone to the Police for impersonation when it seems clear he has been posting on websites under false names to insult people. Wonder what the Police would make of that?!

Also, in my view, various members of CAP's words have left more than enough evidence both here and on ballstotennis.tk to have a very solid libel and slander case launched against them.

Ta ra.

PL>>From your previous 2 posts are we to assume that if you are not one and the same as 'Ballstotennis'then you are at the very least the person behind the 'Ballstotennis' website?

Easy now. That could turn out to be a libellous comment. No - as far as I can see the site really is being run independently by young people. And a good job they are doing too.

PL>>If as he has stated Mr Franzen reports these matters to The Information Commissioners Office and to the Greater Manchester Police then there can be little doubt that the truth will be revealed.

Bring it on.

PL>>I am confused as to to why your messages are addressed to Mr Franzen as you have banned him, logically he would be unable to read them. Or have I missed something?

I've rarely banned anyone and expect that he might be able to read messages but not post. But if he can't read messages either that would be a bonus in view of his threats to myself and a group of young lads, and his aggressive manner on this and other boards.

As one of his supporters will you be trying to continue his tradition?

- Moderator -

Town: dm@aimi.org.uk

Hi Paul,
Sadly once again The CAP scores an own goal. This assumption that the young people of our town can not set up a website and hold opinions other than those of New Labour, is insulting.
One may be "struck dumb" but one may still read,I think that should save the moderator answering your question.
I suggest you read the posting from Nick Hawksworth, he has put us all to shame.
I for one and I think a speak for many did not set out to knock CAP but , BOY, OH!, BOY, don't you make it easy.
Cast your mind back to when the late John Smith was leader of the Labour party. He got called Mr Invisible, for not attacking the Conservative party. But at that time sadly the Conservative party was in self-destruct mode and he left well alone.
I believe a similar situation exists on WMBC.
If I was a New Labour supporter or New labour Stooge as I have been labelled, I would sit back and let the CAP self-destruct. But I value democracy and a viable opposition at all levels of government is vital for democracy.
Best regard
Alan
)

Town: ajames46@fsmail.net

To be honest i dont see why the CAP have kept Peter franzen as a cllr. Isn't he just ruining their reputation? Although i would prefere to see him carry on and get into ALOT of trouble later on. And then we can all laugh at the farse he is. It will be quite amusing to see what else he says really. Glad you banned his awful comments though. Well done AIM!

Town: moshman01@Hotmail.com

Glad to see Aaron on this site , his comments on the BTT site are well balanced and constructive.
So in the space of twenty four hours we have a two people, CAP councillors have labeled children, behaving as well as any of us so called adults.
Please do not deny that they have been called childrem, once post is pressed it can not be refuted.
As in all debates , discussions, arguments, the longer they go on the more people dig in and the harder the solution.
I ask Aaron and Nick as two balanced younger voices to please give us their ideas to end this impasse, I think they will be worth listening to
Kind regards
Alan

Town: ajames46@fsmail.net

Alan,

There is not much i can say on the matter to be honest. Im just a 15 year old BMX'er looking for somewhere to go to stay out of trouble. A simple quest really. Theres no way around it this town needs a skatepark. I dont have any power to get it so i may aswell leave it to those who do, i will surely be there to leand a hand in all proceedings though. There are so many reasons i can think of for getting the park i cannot comprehend the thoughts behind those that dont want it to go ahead; all i can say is i hope that once the park is built the councillors come and see what is being 'thrown down' by the locals. (for those who didnt understand the last sentance i mean come down and watch the local skaters and riders) because i promise you that you will be amazed. : )
I have also been coming on this forum for a while and it seems to be well kept etc. So i will be checking up on it at every opportunity. I do not know how to end this dreadlock because whenever it seems there is progress being made something pops up to hault all progress. (normally pointed out by a CAP cllr, no wonder BTT dont like them)
Anyway thanks for the positive comments Alan.

Town: moshman01@Hotmail.com

Hi Aaron, and welcome!

A>> i cannot comprehend the thoughts behind those that dont want it to go ahead;

The reason that CAP don't want the skatepark to go ahead is because they think they represent everyone in Ashton, and can't therefore allow a group of residents to have a young person's sports facility built near to their homes. That is why they will not name a suitable facility. People with other views, like me, are hated and subjected to vilification as you can see. How any decent people can remain a member of that Party beats me.

I left the Township Forum last year because of the behaviour of them and their 'Friends', and I could already see that they would make no progress on the skatepark because CAP, with its members sitting on various groups attending the Forum plus the councillors, didn't want it.

Despite all the mud-slinging, Labour councillor Nigel Ash did support the skatepark as far as he was able to take it at the time. If you look at the 'youth' section of the site, you can see a history of events, all of which are documented. Look at the gap between the skatepark being agreed (May 2004) and now. Ask yourself why this gang is so anxious to blame Labour for everything.

I believe that as long as this project is retained by the Township Forum it will never go ahead. Captain's Lane could start to seek funding tomorrow if CAP would drop their delaying tactics. I would prefer to see a small group comprising Captain's Lane, the young people and their parents, and representatives of Positive Futures and the Wigan Leisure and Culture Trust form a consortium, by-passing these negative councillors completely. In my opinion we have nothing to lose.

I am Treasurer of Captain's Lane (notice how CAP continually try to denigrate that organisation) and would be involved. However, I can't speak for the Committee so we can't take a lead on this. The excellent work being done on the BTT site has moved things on far more than the Township Forum seems able to do.

I'm glad you appreciate the board and would welcome your continued contribution. I try not to get involved in discussions, but am making an exception in this case because there have been so many lies told about the skatepark project. Oh, and in case you haven't spotted it in previous messages, I am a member of the Labour Party, which, according to CAP, is the worst sin a man can commit, meritting the epithet 'toad', 'rat' or 'weasel'. This from a Party which wanted to go to Parliament!!!!

- David -

Town: dm@aimi.org.uk

Ashton Ward Councillors act for ALL ASHTON. Yes, we happen to be Community Action Party Councillors, but we act for all, equally and fairly.

Some of you chose to ignore this. Bear in mind also that all three Ward Councillors have lived in Ashton ALL THEIR LIVES. I think we can speak for Ashton.

Well, I would say that you act for people who have lived in Ashton ALL THEIR LIVES, as you are so fond of saying. As someone who has lived here for thirty years was told at one of your meetings, "Yes, but you weren't born here". Because of your Party's nasty attacks I feel completely without representation from local councillors, which is why I have no respect for you.

Can I now expect further abuse, or will you leave that to your colleagues?

Town: dm@aimi.org.uk

Oh, and when you exhalt about 'booting New Labour out of Ashton', does that mean just my wife and I, or would you be including my children and grandchildren as well?

Town: dm@aimi.org.uk

Balls To Tennis is considering a meeting after the township forum is held.
As suggested this meeting will by pass the "negative" CAP councillors, debate will include the layout of Jubilee skate park and ideas concerning local fund raising activities.
BTT feels the time has come to leave the past behind and concentrate all our efforts into constructive actions towards the skatepark.
I would like to make clear our guestbook is in the process of shutting down and records are being made of all comments for future reference.
Balls To Tennis are also holding free grammar lessons in Jubilee park over the summer, after it has been made clear by a certain somebody that our members are highly uneducated. We hope to get 57 young spellers to our workshop, we predict that our spelling schools will have so much demand that they will even be braking back into the high schools in desperate need of stationary equipment.
Remember is FREE!!!


BTT

BTT>>Balls To Tennis are also holding free grammar lessons in Jubilee park

I've just spotted that the grammar and spelling in my last message shows perhaps I should enrol :)

- David -

Town: dm@aimi.org.uk

To Aaron
Sorry I didn't respond earlier, but your posting got lost in the ones that followed.
This thread I hoped was for people like you, decent and of no political affilliation. I didn't hold much hope of it been kept that way.

You say there isn't much you can do, but you are wrong. You are doing it already, when a debate like this occurs people get entreched in their views and dig in. Some may want to bend a little, but they find it hard because they will lose face.

By being reasonable and constructive I think you are having more effect than all the BTT websites and one sided postings. You are gaining one of the most valuable things there is, the respect of everyone.

Thank You
Alan

Town: ajames46@fsmail.net

Hi all

I sincerely hope that my spelling and grammar is intact – ok I cheated, I tested my posting in ‘Word’ first!

Firstly, may I reiterate that I (personally) am all for a skate park but I really cannot understand why all the kids/youth are willing to accept a small offering? I have asked this question time and again on the BTT sight but, as yet, no body has responded to me.

Personally I would want something big, something to be proud of and something to be proud that I took part in the making of. You can all get together to fight this thing to the end. It has been proved over and over again. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in Ashton, we could have one in Bryn; as long as it doesn't go out of our township.

I remember the sight at the Three Sisters that was a brilliant set up. Aaron, I didn’t realise how popular it was, but each time I went (when I was younger) it was busy then!

Secondly, please do not tar all CAP’s Councillors with the same dirty brush. There are many of them out there who are actively supporting/working with the youth in many different ways – in various wards.

Labour have had the opportunity to maintain/up grade all our parks and open green spaces as they have had the majority for as long as I can remember but have never made any serious efforts nor given us anything to be proud of. We had a fight to fend off a developer in Bryn who wanted to build on Bryn Rec’. That is the only open space – aside from Brocstedes Field and the, now beautiful, Three Sisters – that Bryn has. We should be actively involved in utilising our green open spaces properly and to their potential not detriment.

David, wasn’t Cap’s Lane Centre one of the areas suggested for the skate park? Correct me if I am wrong but was it turned down (as were many of the other sites offered) due to the area being “out of sight”?

If I had the space in my own back garden I would build one for you guys. Sadly I don’t, but as Alan has said, if we all (who ever that will be) come together a bigger, better Skate Park is achievable! Ask the residents at Stubshaw Cross - look what they achieved.

Incidentally – excuse my naivety on this – but is there training for skateboarding, or is it something you learn to do? I was simply asking for something else for my 7 yr old son to get into – besides his obsession for trains!

Thanks Adele.

A>>...please do not tar all CAP’s Councillors with the same dirty brush. There are many of them out there who are actively supporting/working with the youth in many different ways – in various wards.

Then why do most of those in Ashton/Bryn need to show such hatred and act as they do, and continually combine to attack people and oppose various initiatives? Calling people 'toads', 'rats' and 'weasels' and talking of 'booting' people out of Ashton is not my idea of responsible behaviour by an elected representative of the people (well, perhaps BNP think so), nor is having lies printed about me in the press about my volunteer work just because I have different political views. (This from a party whose slogan is 'Bringing honesty and integrity into politics'!!!!) Do you wonder why I find anyone who subscribes to these views anathema?

A>>David, wasn’t Cap’s Lane Centre one of the areas suggested for the skate park? Correct me if I am wrong but was it turned down (as were many of the other sites offered) due to the area being “out of sight”?

It was turned down in the report to the Township Forum because of the following reasons a) no existing play facilities; b) no car park; c) not directly overlooked by housing; d) no immediate emergency access but not far from road.

The ironic thing in view of recent criticism is it was me who suggested Captain's Lane be included as a possible site. As far as Captain's Lane committee is concerned, it has no preferences for the site, but whichever site is picked must have the backing of the Council and WLCT for insurance and maintenance purposes.

- David -

Hi Adele,
To answer your questions as best I can, and then it is only my opinion.
I don't doubt that BTT and the rest of the skateboarers would like "a bigger offering". It is a matter of position. As the estate agents say "It's all about Location, Location and Location."

The fact that there is opposition to the Jubilee park site is because it is near a centre of population. By the same token access is nearer for users.


Your second and third point re CAP and Labour, the solution is quite simple, don't vote for either, Orrell and Swinley seem happy with an alternative!!

As regards the objections from local residents. To use that horrible phrase that is so over used, "I can see where you are coming from but" In this case the but is,I do not think a skateboard park will increase anti social behaviour, trying to kill your self on a piece of wood and four wheels hardly gives you time. The site will be on public view and easier to "police/monitor".

I hope I am not patronising the younger people. But when one reaches my age (59) waiting isn't as hard. To the young people it just seems promises and commities. I am sure they have reached the stage when they think the first time they use these facilities will be taking their own teenage offspring ... (I nearly typed teenage children then , that was close).

As for your penultimate paragraph, if people had not "dug in" so early I believe my suggestion regarding of an independently chaired meeting may have brought results. Who knows it may not be too late.

Regarding your last paragraph, the only way anyone will get me on a skateboard is if they use one to move my coffin!!

Best regards
Alan
PS I did not use word check, marks out of ten please

Town: ajames46@fsmail.net

Rampworx does teaching sessions on Saturday mornings sometimes. Check the website www.rampworx.com. I hope you have fun taking your child to Liverpool, but once the park is opened im sure some of the skaters will help him out. As for the track at three sisters yes it was always popular. Regards to your comments on getting the park in Bryn i must admit its a bit farfetched as most of the users are in Ashton and it is only down the road anyway. Lets stop this 'what about here, or here, or here etc' because its getting old really quick. Jubilee park is a superb location and is perfect! End of.

All of this stuff about grammar, its a bit pointless really isnt it? lol being 'da youf' im free to say its not really that important as long as you get your point across.

Alans comments always seem to be spot on aswell as Nicks. Dont be afraid to say what you think, after all talk is cheap anyway :) we want actions and results!

Aaron

Town: moshman01@Hotmail.com

Hello again.

in response to Davids posting ...

I am fully aware of the tit-for-tat between your self and certain councillors, my posting was to state that NOT all of them are the same and I stand by that. I agree with Alan there has been too many insults hurled about and is not endearing to anybody who reads these web sites.

I'm aware of who they may be and make no apologies on their behalf - they are big enough and ugly enough to that themselves! Name calling is not a game I have taken part in, to be honest too much of it goes on and, I too, am tiring of it. I (as far as I am aware) have had no reason to fall out with you David as I had respect for your input during the Enviro' Sub-group meetings you attended.

My question of Caps Lane rejection was simply a question of curiosity and not a critical remark. I was present at the meeting where you gave Cap's Lane as a suggestion.

I do not wish to become embroiled in any 'political back-biting' after my experience last year, life is too short!

I would like to see something gr8 happen to Ashton and Bryn - biased I know; but we do loose out a lot to you guys (Ashton I mean!)

Sadly in todays environment, anything that we do, we will always be accused of being political. I have even been accused of being Militant! I would disagree, but I strongly believe in fighting my own corner. ;-)

Adele -

If the CAP fits, wear it.

Hi Adele,
In Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches and maybe others, prior to partaking of the Eucharist The Peace is exchanged.

Peace Be With You

And May God Bless You
Alan

Town: ajames46@fsmail.net

Surely if CAP Councillors in Ashton feel only people born in Ashton can properly represent Ashton they must feel the same about neighbouring wards,including Golborne?