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Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

A friend just gave me this motor and I was curious to know what model you think it might be. He said he had it running last year and I know it has been sitting outside for many months now.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/who10/sets/72157624449236801/

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

I may have answered my own question. According to this chart, http://www.wizardoutboardforum.com/techinfo.html, A serial number of 723707 would mean it's a 1954 WG-4 Supertwin. And if I'm reading the technical info correctly, http://file.walagata.com/w/mercman/non-image/Wizard_Page_1_50.jpg, it's a 6hp motor and you should mix 3/4 pint of SAE 30 to one gallon of gas in order to start it.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

So I cleaned this motor up a little, put it in a barrel, sprayed the carb with a quick blast of starter fluid and it started right up. I quickly shut it down as I did not expect it to start. Now that I know it will run, what are the next steps? Carb kit? Impeller? Seals? Just wondering what you would do to ensure this outboard runs without issue from this point on.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

I would remove the drain plug from the gearbox and see if any water runs out. If it does, you need to service the foot - replace seals, probably the water pump impeller also. That runs about $30. Seals are $5-10 each and there are several. If the gearbox has no water, refill it with 105 grease and start it again, in a drum of water of course, and check to see if water is spitting out the back of the leg along with exhaust. This indicates that the water pump is working. If it runs I wouldn't do anything to the carb or mag. If no water comes out of the holes, then you will need to replace the water pump impeller, which we can walk you through. It has two coils - if they are bad they cost about $50 each. So you can see, if it needs considerable repair it can run into money. But that's a dandy motor.
JW in Dixie

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Thanks. I'll play around with it in my free time over the next few days and we'll see how it goes. Do you know if any auto supply stores sell the 105 grease? I don't think we have any NAPAs in this area. Only Autozone and Oreilly's.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Lubriplate 105 is a specific brand and type product ...there are others made for same purpose
sold at marine dealers and others under Mercury or OMC label. WalMart has marine product section too.
The old dried up lube has to come out!
AND then you need to look at gears,shafts and seals
(and spacer and shims)
What you want to find are gears properly set up using
shims and spacer at correct locations to set gear lash,shafts that are straight & uncorroded with
good threads and splines...the brass bushings or
bearings in gear case should not have excessive
clearance...(shafts that wobble)
Seal in water pump housing is CR/SKF 4923
I do not know the drive shaft seal number off hand
but it has to fit into a 3/4" Outside Diameter pocket and fit a 1/2" shaft. Seals work best on smooth
shafts concentric to seal lip. Lips face outward
to keep water out of gear case. Brass plug in gear case like brass plug in water jacket are almost always
corroded tightly in place...difficult to remove
without destroying plug and maybe thread too.
If you can remove plug easily you can temporarily replace with a zerk fitting to pump in grease AS long as you open the vent screw. Be sure to grease prop shaft and splines of drive shaft when reassembling.
It is more difficult to fix one old outboard than it
is to make one good outboard from several...
A lot depends upon prior use and care. More than a
few old long stored outboards were put up because
they had a problem which was beyond ability or wallet of a prior owner...sometimes this is good because
it preserved an otherwise good motor for the right
person with a desire to see it run again.
Paint, polish and decals are certainly going to make an old motor look spiffy, but, I would suggest evaluating how much originality remains first.
Cleaning may enhance or destroy remaining originality...mild cleaning process to enhance and
preserve original paint and decals...harsh cleaning
to remove crud and grease prior to paint,polish and
new decals...new decals are usually vinyl not water
slide like originals.
More than likely you will hear that Kiekhaefers are
hard to work on due to need for Mercury Service Tools
That applies mostly to later models. The early K Models have some sticky spots but they can be worked
on if you can make some simple tools and learn some
basic techniques...I am talking complete tear down
and rebuild which is something I have done a bit of
because I like to pick up stuck parts motors and
see what can be done with them. Sometimes worst
problems are prior efforts to fix...sometimes parts from a junk motor will help several others toward
completion.
Patience and Understanding are your best allies
in working with an old outboard
As always, my opinions are my own and no one is
required to accept them...I reserve the right to
change my opinion if I find I am in error.

Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

If you can't find Lubriplate 105 in a nearby store, John McIntosh sells it through his site for cheaper than NAPA: http://www.johnsmcintosh.com/Parts.htm. He ships quickly, too. Nice guy!

If you have a tractor supply store by you, you can also substitute corn head grease, which is the same viscosity (NLGI 0) as Lubriplate. http://www.shoupparts.com/catalog/view.cfm?bmkName=202562&ID=6676&Type=Product&FolderID=97796

JP

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Thanks louis and jpatti75 for all the info. We do have a Tractor Supply in this area. I may run by and look for the corn head grease. I plan on dumping the old gas and inspecting the lower unit tonight.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Look for the fuel filter. It will need cleaning, more than likely. May be inside the tank - if so there will be a huge hex nut on the bottom of the tank where the line to the carb connects. You can rinse the tank first, then put some gas in the tank and see if it drains out of the bottom in a good stream over the period of a minute or so. I had one that would run a min and quit; let sit for a min or 2 and it would run a min again, and quit. Filter in the tank was gunked up with oily varnish,letting very little fuel pass, just enough to run a min or two. Maybe you can clean it - I usually remove it and put an inline paper filter between the tank and the carb. And, NO, the paper will NOT absorb all of the oil!

Good luck. JW in Dixie

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

How do you access the filter if it is in the tank and what do you rinse the tank with prior to putting fuel in it? I'm working on the lower unit now. I should be able to show some pics soon.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

If the filter is inside the tank you have to unscrew that big (1-1/2"?) hex nut that the fuel line attaches to. I would rinse the tank with reg gas until it shows clean, then check the flow of gas out of the tank. That will indicate how clean the filter is. If you get a good, consistent flow I would not try to unscrew the filter nut. It's in there pretty good. If you do have to remove it you really need a socket to fit, a 2 foot long handle and a gorilla to hold the tank. If fuel flows well, leave it to heck alone. JW in Dixie

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Sometimes the cast two part gas tanks leak at the seam. The best way to repair it is to buy fuel tank sealer from a motorcycle supply place or online like at Ebay. You slosh it around in the tank and pour it out and then let it cure. (fuel filter and fittings removed of course.)

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Again, thanks for the info. The link below shows what I found with the lower unit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/who10/sets/72157624582580498/

In a previous post, Louis mentioned "If you can remove plug easily you can temporarily replace with a zerk fitting to pump in grease AS long as you open the vent screw." Well, I removed the plug, so I'm wondering if any old zerk fitting will do, or if I need a certain thread size...

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Zerk threads must match the plug. However, with the vent screw out I usually just hold the grease gun nozzle tight onto the fill hole and gently pump the gearbox full.

105 Lubriplate is often marked "Motor Assembly Grease" in auto parts stores, but it's the same stuff. My boat buddy Bob has used boat trailer wheel bearing (water-resistant) grease in his Mark 25/KE7 RatMotor for 15 years because it wouldn't hold 105. No problem.

JW in Dixie

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Don't use regular SAE 30 motor oil in any 2 cycle engine. TWC-3 is the only oil to use in my book. I prefer sticking with brand name oils like Pennzoil, but some swear by the Walmart stuff.

The TWC-3 code represents, Two cycle, Water Cooled, type 3 formula. This formula is most compatible with modern gas additives

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

The plug thread is 1/8 x 27 (threads per inch)
National Pipe Thread...which is a tapered thread
...as plug is screwed it it meshes with taper and
seals agains leakage...this is different from
nut and bolt threads which do not taper.
No idea how common zerk fiting in this size is...
just ran across a package of them.
By the by...the plug for lower water jacket, carburetor (sometimes has two openings...one of
which is plugged) and water pump housing have
same thread and seem to be same plug.
Plugs seem to have been originally installed without
pipe dope so often corroded in place and not to
be removed except by extraordinary effort...note
prior efforts frequently have chewed up the screwdriver slot in the soft brass plug.
Carburetor plug (if so equipped) usually easily
removed when cleaning carburetor.
(the above for use of those who may benefit...
not to show off my sometimes imperfect knowledge)
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

You guys are obviously very knowlegable on these outboards. I appreciate the help.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Greased up the lower unit using the zert method described by louis. Found the grease and correct size zert at Tractor Supply. Cleaned out the old gas. Man, what a mess that was. Once the gas would flow at a constant steady stream, replaced the old gas with a good 16:1 mixture, turned the gas on and the carb started leaking like crazy. Needless to say, the motor wouldn't start. I'm sure it was flooded. Guess the carb needs some attention Anyway, I shut off the gas, waited an hour or so, sprayed a shot of starter fluid at the carb and she started right up.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Sounds like you probably need to reseal the carburetor float, which is made of cork if it is original. You'll need to let it completely dry out and then you need to coat it with either fuel proof clear model airplane dope ... or Super Glue ... which is also fuel proof. Give it two to three good coats and let it dry over night. While you have the carburetor bowl open, clean it up and make sure the needle is clean and not sticking.

This is what I use:
http://hobbiesr.com/mid/mid-137/mid40-4.htm

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Cork float looked saturated, so I set it out to dry in the sun for a day or two. As I was cleaning the carb, I noticed a very small crack in the bottom of the float bowl. Looks like someone may have tried to tighten the fuel line a bit too much. Thread tape on that fitting may seal it. Hmmm... Also noticed the choke push rod didn't seem to look right. The end of the rod did not fit in the choke valve hole. I'm thinking the rod has either been replaced or the tip broke off at some point.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

So is there anything I should be aware of before I go in to inspect the points? Just want to make sure I don't get surprised by a wild starter spring or anything else when I start to dig in. Also, any info on replacing spark plug wires for this model(WG4) would be appreciated. The wires on my outboard have no boots. Wires are wrapped around the spark plug tip and tightened down with a nut. I'd have to go to Autozone or Orielly's since there is no NAPA in this area.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Gas tank and rewind removed as assembly...remove
4 fasteners and the fuel line and it should lift
off as a unit (remove cowl to gain access)
If you have tool removing flywheel ratchet nut is
routine...if not still routine...use pipe wrench
with padding to avoid damage to ratchet nut...
feed enough rope in thru a spark plug opening to
jam piston on up stroke and remove rachet nut.
Usual and preferred method to remove flywheel is
as follows:
1) use a flywheel puller with central forcing screw
and three holding screws spaced at 120 degrees
Screw in the three holding screws enough to
fully engage threads but not so far as to project
and possibly damaging coils...
Apply forcing screw to end of crankshaft (use 7/16 x 20 )nut to protect threads THEN bop the top of
the forcing screw ONCE sharply...( I use a lead
or brass hammer) that usually is all it takes to release flywheel...if that does not work leave
it set for a bit sometimes flywheel jumps off
after setting an hour or so.
Excessive force or impatience ruins hard to find
parts...
Under flywheel is a magplate with two coils,two
condensors and two sets of points...work on only
one at a time so you have an example of how it
all goes back together...watch how wires are
routed too.
If magneto area is oily the top crankcase seal
needs to be replaced. I would note that for
a future revisit.
Use an electrical spray (no residue)cleaner
to clean up magneto if needed and put a drop
of heavy oil on cam wiper felt. Cam arrow side
up and be sure to reinstall wavy washer on top.
When reinstalling flywheel do NOT oil taper
of crankshaft or flywheel hub...they go together
dry...Manual calls for 40 foot pounds torque
on flywheel nut
Might we wise to recheck after running a bit.
Ignition wires should not be soldered...high
voltage will easily pass from lug on coil to
wire that is in contact and thence to spark plug
Soldering risks overheating the very fine coil
wire's insulation, Never pull engine over with
spark plug wire disconnected...the spark may
go to ground inside coil...and that can lead to
a bad coil or one that shows a good spark but
will misfire under cylinder's compression.
0.018" points & 0.025" spark plugs
Spark plug wire must be braided metal wire core
7mm size...single wire core is not flexible
Carbon core wire wrong for a number of reasons.
I just finished rewireing a prewar twin and was
not happy with the new braided wire core...not
as much wire and not as flexible as wire I removed
...old wire insulation bad so it had to go...
Flexible is important...as magplate turns wire
has to move around
Louis...my free opinion is worth about half its cost
Any steps or details I have overlooked will be picked
up by those who follow along here...

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

I actually got it torn down to the point where I pull the flywheel and this information is spot on. I appreciate it. I'll follow the instructions and let you guys know how it turns out. May take some pictures along the way as well. Thanks.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Visual record can save some headscratching at reassembly time...also enables you to share problems
and things that you don't understand in hopes that someone out there has been there done that and
remembers.
There is another way to remove flywheel on small
outboards...a tool that screws on crankshaft
and is struck while someone holds up engine by
edge of flywheel with his/her fingers...skeg will
drop so something soft underneath is wise.
Briggs and Stratton and Tecumseh use this method
Fly wheel on my Toro snowblower did not have holes
tapped for use of puller so I made up a tool in
soft brass and hit it while prying on flywheel
and off it came.(Tecumseh Snow King motor)
I have been told this may risk a bent crankshaft
so guide your actions accordingly.
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Ok, when they say "pop" the flywheel, they're not kidding. It literally popped off of there. Scared the pants off of me. Thought I broke something. Here's a pick of the tool I used. Used Grade 8 1/4-20 bolds from Sutherlands. Lowe's had a small selection, but the bolts were pretty short. I had the puller on hand. If I remember right, I picked it up at Orielly's a long time ago.


Rope in hole. This worked well.


Underside of flywheel.


And now for the questions. I want to make sure I understand where the points are and what I need to sand and gap appropriately. Please see comments below.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/who10/sets/72157624649483694/

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Contact points are located next to the adjusment
screw...you loosen the screw and the plate pivots...
allowing you reset gap between points...then you tighten screw to lock plate in
position...HOWEVER a few details first...
1)Kiekhaefer advised 0.020 gap for new points and
0.018" gap for points that had been in use
2)point contacts should be cleaned up a by a little
gentle strokes with a file if rough or a little
buffing with abrasive AND a good clean up to remove
grease/oil and any particles that might adhere to
point surfaces..contact points are little buttons
of Tungsten (a high melting point metal) about
size of "baby" aspirin...they open and close
by the action of a fibre cam follower that
traces the profile of the cam. Felt oiler
leaves trace of oil on cam so fiber follower
wears more slowly...if follower weara down
point gap closes up.
3) cam may be tacky so pull clean and replace
4) if motorit ran you can assume that points,condensors and coils okay (as well as connections and low voltage wiring.)

5) working on one side at a time remove high
tension wire, cut a new wire long enough to
allow for stripping ends...do like electricians
do...cut long and trim back as needed..better
to waste a little wire than have one too short
...study how wire is routed before you remove
old wire so new wire will be routed the same
...sometimes tape is used to prevent chaffing
do likewise. Ignition wire will be easier to
handle if you tin the stranded wire together
on the end that goes thru lug on coil so there
less chance for a stray strand of wire grounding
to some part of magneto...it is not necessary to solder high tension wire to coil...fine wires and thin insulation of coil wire easily damaged by soldering...high voltage flows from lug to wire
wrapped around coil lug...If wire happens to be soldered in place don't unsolder it join the wires and wrap in tape...high voltage so watch out for
places it may short out. You may need to remove coils from magneto plate to access points and to replace wires...work so you can retrace your steps when reassembling

Much of work on an old outboard is as my Math teacher said...hard by the yard but a cinch by the inch...
magneto work certainly follows that rule. Think about
the detail task you are doing and not about the big
picture which is made of many little details...
Yours magneto is a Phelon also Repco (R E Phelon Co) that Kiekhaefer used on the WF4 WG4 Wizard and is not
same as Phelon magneto used on Mecurys.

It may be easier to remove contact points for cleaning
and oiling...just be gentle, remember where wires
routed and connected..or review pictues...
felt should be cleaned and lightly reoiled with 60wt oil per Kiekhaefer...or oil you have on hand just
don't leave felt wet as excess may wind up in points
...cam pulls out so you can clean and check
for roughness...just be sure to replace arrow side up
and don't loose the wavy washer...
replace points and then set gap
GAP is set by rolling motor over (with adjustment
lightly snugged down)...plastic cam follower lifts
points a distance you adjust (using feeler gage to
verify gap ) to either 0.018 or 0.020 (as you choose)...when you are
satisfied with gap tighten the adjustment screw
AND repeat with the other set of points...
If it does not seem AOK take a picture and ask.

Spray on contact cleaner or electrical cleaner is
made to clean and leave no residue to collect dirt
WD40 is NOT what you want,
Contact/Electrical cleaner will NOT affect insulation

Your goal when done is a clean magneto with clean
and properly adjusted points, felts with just a
touch of oil a smooth cam AND all wiring and parts
where they were when you started. Put a dab of
grease in area where mag plate rotates against
just enough to smooth movement.
If you had a functioning magneto to start with this
should make it spark better, operate smoother and prolong its life.
Magneto plate may be secured by a screw under plate
that provides friction and prevents lifting off
until backed out...count the turns to get it back
to where you started
Louis...
I like your pictures ... they will give same info
as several thousand of my words.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Embarrassing. Guess I need to redo that pic above. after closer inspection, I see the points. Found some electrical no residue cleaner. Just need to pic up some new wires. Will probably work on this slowly over the next few days. Thanks again.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Funny...looking at your picture I do not see the felt
oiliers that should be there...if they are not on contact arm see if they are around somewhere...
if they are present in location to wipe the cam
spray the contact cleaner on them to remove old
oil and crud then reoil...if the fiber arms ride
on unlubed cam they wear rapidly...if felts have
excess oil on them it may foul the contact surfaces
In either case magneto will not spark as it should...
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Cam wiper? I think I see a white piece of stuff just above the lower coil. ?? Someone recently recommended using beeswax on the felt. Hmmm. Guess you could clean the felt thoroughly, dry, then dip in warmed beeswax. Should work. FWIW. JW in Dixie

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

The white stuff was left over from a spider that took up residence.

I spent some time on it tonight. Carefully took off all the components, laid them out on a board in the same order as they are installed. I also took tons of pictures along the way. Started cleaning things up. I never did see anything resembling felt. Feelers were in contact with the cam from what I could tell.






Now I'm wondering why they're not there. I don't see them in the assy shown at the following link, but then again, wavy washer doesn't show either.
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B6wRLMxPeVaiNDBhYjg1MWMtZjdhMi00MGE1LWFmY2UtNGY0MzYxMDhmYmU3&hl=en
Strange...

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

A few facts to chew on:
Phelon F189 series magneto use same contact point
set as Phelon F514 series..FG626
I went downstairs and looked at at three KE4/
F514 Magnetos...NO felts on contact sets
Bendix,Wico and Eisemann magnetos have felts
...looked to be sure
Checked Mercury 1965 and Prior Service Manual...
servicing Phelon Magneto step #7:
"If cam wick becomes dry, it should be replaced. (Do
not oil wick.) If breaker pivot is dry, lubricate
lightly with MULTIPURPOSE Lubricant (C-92-35226)
Do not use any oil and avoid excess lubricant which
might get on points."
Phelon parts manual picture is not large enough or clear of F189 but Mercury service manual contains a clear picture of F514 with "felt wiper" or cam wick.

An additional point to ponder is...
Reinstalling Phelon Magneto
step #1 "Replace cam breaker (on engines equipped
with cam) on crankshaft with arrow marking down and
in direction of rotation of engine. See that nub
in cam is on top for point setting. Insert key into
slotted keyway on crankshaft."
Wonder which way arrow goes...UP where you can see
arrow or DOWN where you cannot...
Looked at three cams...had nubs but no arrows...
go figure...I think it only goes on nubs up.

Answer to felt or cam wiper question seems to require
a picture of an engine with Phelon 189 Magneto with it/them in place. Measurements would be helpful too.
Felt oiler seem to go missing more often than not
...magneto will produce spark and engine will run
without them...for a while.
Suggestion to apply a very light coat of wax to cam probably better than no lube at all.

Mercury service manual also is down on use of file
on points..."stone" only! States 0.018" for early
Phelon and 0.020" point setting for later contact
or breaker points. Manual also states set new
points at 0.020" and used points at 0.018"
Mercury Service Manual is a useful guide but
sometimes difficult to determine what to do
in a specific situation.

A further possibility is that Phelon determined that
cam follower finger of contact points was slippery
enough to resist wear for service life of points
to eliminated felt wipes...the earlier Bendix,
Eisemann an Wico points had wipes as part of contact
set...at least until felt deteriorated.
Louis
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Very interesting information and I appreciate you going through the trouble to compare other magnetos and look at the service manual. I should probably obtain one. I think I'm starting to get addicted to this.

Anyway, as I was tearing it down last night, I did notice a waxy residue on the cam. I wonder if a prior owner or maintenance tech took the "light coat of wax" approach.

As far as the arrow goes, "Replace cam breaker (on engines equipped
with cam) on crankshaft with arrow marking down and
in direction of rotation of engine."
I believe mine was in this position. I am able to see an arrow I'll have to go back and look at the pictures to be sure.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

New Mercury 1965 and Prior Manual is about $70
plus shipping & handling...there are used ones
about for much less Watch ebay and webvertize
as they come up from time to time. I think hard
copy more useful than CD
Bear in mind the manual assumes you are an experienced
factory trained technician with factory service tools!
AND that you will have no rust or crud to deal with
...all parts available from parts counter or express
delivery from distributor.
None of the above has been true since Ike took over
from HST
The manual devotes most coverage to the later,larger
and more complex models (as it should) and assumes the
shop technician either knows the small early models
well enough or would seldom see one.

Hopefully someone has a WF4 or WG4 with felt oiler(s)
in place and will be kind enough to take pictures
of the magneto plate and post...
PLEASE!
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Cam arrow and part number on one cam (visible after dirt and grime removed)...so cams come in at least
three variations...
1) arrow on top edge of cam
2) unmarked
3) part number and arrow low on face of cam
Cam slides freely on crankshaft nub end up...does not
want to go on crankshaft the other (incorrect) way
although if you hammer it on it may "fit"...
and I suppose that has done.
When point sets are on magneto plate the cam followers
will interfere with cam installation or if the cam
is on the crankshaft the cam will interfere with
cam followers when installing magneto plate...
easy enough to loosen admustment screws and back
contact sets away or simply open points when
instaling cam or magneto plate. The important point
is NOT to force things when they do not seem to
want to go together easily...they should...if not
stop and look things over...Force does not usually
solve problems...more often something expensive or
hard to replace gets busted...resulting in a bigger
and harder to solve problem.
Do not ask how I know...
Louis

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Thanks Louis. Mine was set up like "3) part number and arrow low on face of cam" I have some pics and I'll attach them at some point. I've got it all put back together, but the day I was going to test was the day my son was born. Needless to say, we've been kind of busy. I'll get it tested at some point and let you guys know how things work. Right now, I'm enjoying the new addition to our family.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Here's a pick of my cam, wavywasher and key with the arrow at the bottom.


I'm happy to report that it started on the second pull. Runs great, but doesn't seem to be pumping much water. Powerhead gets hot and I don't see a lot of water coming out anywhere. Think I'll pull the lower unit and check things out again. I may need a new impeller. As I was looking at the picture below, I noticed there's no pin between the prop blade and clutch assy. Wonder if this is preventing the impeller from working correctly.


I wanted to make sure it ran before I started putting new parts into it.
So my next question is... Where is the water outlet when the motor is running?
Here?

Or here?

Thanks

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Water should flow out the copper tube in a steady stream when running. (your last picture)

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

Well, that's what I was afraid of. Right now, it just spits a tiny bit out of there. Hopefully, it's just the old impeller causing the problem. That's easy enough to fix.

Re: Need Help Identifying Wizard Model

I believe the thin tube is an oil drain...disposes
of the excess oil in an UN PC manner....trace tube
and you will see it comes from area of lower seal/bearing...not a place you want to find water!!!
Kiekhaefer singles from 1940 K1 thru KE3 discharged
cooling water thru a tube from end top of water jacket
while the twins discharged into the exhaust manifold
(thru WD4 KD4 via a 5/16" tube later models thru internal plumbing.)
if you remove water pump and run water from hose into the round water passage it should go up into water jackets and exit into exhaust manifold and out
exhaust at bottom of leg...when engine is running
a mist of water and exhaust will exit the holes
in rear of leg...
Shear pin not used between propeller and clutch plate...the notch in propeller hub and the hole in propshaft will allow use of shear pin without the rubber clutch...bear in mind the importance of the
use of propeller nut,cotter key,washer and the rubber
ring in end of propeller...the I.D. of washer is
a loose 1/2" and the O.D. should be about 7/8"...
SO when you install propeller with either shear
pin or clutch as you tighten prop nut washer compresses rubber ring and propeller hub tensions
the shear pin or the clutch plates on the rubber biscuit and the water pump drive hub pin...
clear so far?
Very early Kiekhaefer outboards had a different
prop hub and used a shear pin...when Kiekhaefer
adopted the clutch they retained the old prop shaft
and switched to a propeller with a hub that could
engage either the plate of the clutch or a shear
pin...why? so both new and old designs could use
same prop shaft and propeller.
Anyway the use of a common 1" I.D. washer (with a 1/2" I.D.hole) defeats the purpose of some pretty
simple but well thought out engineering design...
if my experience is representative most propellers
from K Models lack the rubber ring, the correct size
washer or a cotter pin to retain the propeller nut
(and the tension that keeps everything in firm
but not excessive contact.

Water pump/gear...the water pump to gear case gasket has some impact on gear lash which may require adjusting shims to obtain
acceptable gear noise/wear
Your cam is a type #4 unlike the three I have seen...
Your pictures really make your questions clear.
If my answere are not as clear and correct someone
please bring it to my attention.
Since your next item is the water pump you may wish
to review the lower unit picture sequence posted
on this site to see what lies ahead. I have revised
my thinking since making that series so don't be
too hard on me for captions that may not be entirely
spot on.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Again, thanks for the info. This is actually a relief in that the six holes in the prior pictures were spitting out mist and exhaust as you've described, however, the power head is still getting pretty hot. While it was running, there was a small drop of something on the copper tube. This may have been oil that I was mistaking for water. I'll take a better look next time.

Right now, I've got it apart in the garage waiting for a new impeller. You can see the old impeller in the last two pics. It's in the upper right hand corner of the last pic. Seems to be pretty old.

I'm also planning on replacing the carb as the old one has a small crack where someone tried to force the wrong size fitting into the hole.

I have had the lower unit apart.
Here are some pics.














Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Nice series of pictures. In looking at the end of the
water passage it seems to me there may be excessive
crud clogging things up. Do you have access to air
pressure? If so, you might want to apply air to
exhaust end of leg and see if you can get a good
back flow of air coming out at the water pump end
of cooling water circuit...even a good impeller
can not pump water thru a clogged line...your impeller looks well past its best by date.
The steel shims ahead of propshaft gear are important
and need to be there...if corroded replacements need to be fitted. The pinion gear on drive shaft may
have a bronze spacer and a steel shim OR it might
be a tall gear that fits does not...gear noise
and gear life require acceptable gear lash which
is set by the shims and somewhat by thickness of
gasket between water pump housing and gear case.
If you look this site over you can find a thread
where I went thru the learning curve on this
subject.
Glad your two projects are coming along well...
the one that wears diapers will require the
most maintenance...
Louis

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Thanks. Yes, very busy with my "new project" right now. I'm hoping at some point, he'll enjoy tinkering with this stuff as much as I do.

I do have access to quite a bit of air pressure, so I'll try to blow it out and clean things up while I'm waiting on the new impeller, gaskets, seals, etc...

I wondered about that corroded washer/shim and what to replace it with. I'll have to look for the thread you were talking about.

On a side note, I got the replacement carb yesterday. Needs some cleaning, but at least there are no cracks in it from prior owners. Should work fine once I clean it up.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Spent some time troubleshooting the impeller issue. Looks to me like the shaft seal was allowing grease to enter the impeller housing. When pumping water, it was also pumping grease... Not good. I was able to blow most of the grease out of the line by sealing up the holes in the leg(plastic bags and duct tape), then blowing compressed air in through the lower exhaust. What a mess. Here's a pic of the seal I'm talking about. Wonder what it would take to replace it? Special tools or just pop it out and replace? I know, nothing is that easy...

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Remove old seal and replace with CR 4923
Smooth propshaft in area of seal surface as best
you can.
Removing old seal is toughest part of job as it
is likely to be corroded in place...sometimes you have
to tear out seal bit by bit...resist urge to
pry it out of pocket as you do not want to
damage walls...if you do damage it probably will not matter too much but best avoided. JB Weld exists
to fix up things like this.
You can make a seal and/or needle bearing installer from a 1/2" bolt nut and washer arrangement or you can
use a press...I have installed and removed both
using each method...I like the press better but
bolt and nut will work just fine.
You do have to take care not to damage the bronze bearing in water pump...some 1/2" bolts have an shoulder slightly larger than 1/2" and threaded area may scratch bearing
A new seal will work IF prop shaft seal surface
is smooth and concentric to seal, JB Weld probably
worth trying is no better solution comes to mind.
If prop shaft is bent,corroded or worn do not
expect great results...a good used or NOS prop
shaft best alternative. Lube prop shaft when inserting
thru new seal
Shims for prop shaft can possibly be found at a local
industrial supplier or for sure at McMaster Carr.
Louis

I am surprised you were able to remove the brass
plug from gear case...those are often so corroded
in place that they are best left alone.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

I tapped my new seals in with a hammer and the back of a socket that was the same diameter as the seal. Any gouges on the seal wall from the old seal being removed can be plugged with a little form-a-gasket. Like Louis said, better not to mess it up in the first place.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

louis

I am surprised you were able to remove the brass
plug from gear case...those are often so corroded
in place that they are best left alone.


The plug wasn't corroded at all. I think someone had this motor for a while and took care of it. Not much corrosion at all. I did spot a small spot on the shaft, but not around the seal area. I'll have to inspect it a little closer. If it looks good, I'll look for a new seal. Where do you obtain your seals? I noticed East Coast Marine has this kit for the Merc KD4
http://store.eastcoastmarineservice.com/product_p/26-24440k.htm
Would this work on my WG4? Also, please forgive my ignorance, but what does NOS stand for?

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Sometimes when you are very lucky you find a part
you need that has never been used...NOS...New Old Stock...found a K Model Mercury water pump housing
mixed in with some Martin parts at a swap meet once.
Seal was all dried out but housing was as new.
On the other hand you do not want to see NLA beside
parts listing for something you need...No Longer
Available.
If you find grease in water pump someone may have
pumped grease into gear case without opening vent screw...so grease exits via shaft and seal into waterpump...seal lip faces water pump to exclude
water from gear case.
Seals and bearings available in most cases from several sources...on net or locally...spend your money where your business is welcome
If you are going to hammer in new seal take note of the thin web of metal on opposite side of water pump
housing and support housing so you do not damage the thin semicircle of metal...it serves a purpose....
also when using press...bolt and nut method avoids this issue but brings up others...
I have seen thick cork used as gasket between water pump and gear housings...I use heavy brown paper bag
as source of gasket stock for this location. Thin is
better because the gasket may complcate fit of shims
to obtain correct gear lash...leaving shims out was a common practice...a very bad idea...prop shaft gear
and drive shaft pinion have to be neither too loose
nor too tight...OR ELSE!!! Shims of proper thickness
adjust gear lash for least noise and longest gear life...kind of a cut and try thing...best to start
with Original Equipment Maker's shim thickness and
substitute thicker or thinner shims as required to
obtain an acceptable condition.
This is NOT a small detail if you intend to use the
motor.
KD and WD water pump are same as WF4 and WG4. The
Early K Model (Mercury or Wizard ) were sort of basic
designs compared to later models but they were an
improvement on Thor and for that matter several other
makers best efforts.
Louis

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Thanks again for all the info. I think I'll start searching out some sources for washers, shims, seals, ect... I like the thought of the brown paper bag as I've already had this thing apart twice now. I'd hate to have to buy a new gasket each time.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

McMaster Carr has shims in various thicknesses BUT
so far as I as I was able to determine sold in
single thickness in quantities...I wonder if they
would offer a mixed bag of thicknesses if asked.
That would make fine adjustment of gear lash an
easier proposition. Shims are installed ahead of
prop shaft gear to regulate how deeply it engages
the drive shaft pinion (pinion is the smaller of
two gears in this kind of set up) The drive shaft
pinion comes in two heights...a bronze spacer and
a steel shim between low pinion and top of gear case
...the steel shim goes between the bronze spacer
and the bronze bearing the drive shaft goes thru
...that is important...bearing wear is reduced
when metal to metal contact is between two different
metals...exception is cast iron rings in cast iron
cylinder...due to lubrication qualities of carbon
Tall pinion does not require shim or bronze spacer
I do not know why Kiekhaefer used two different
pinions...I know that they did
Singles use a 12/22 tooth pinion and gear and NO
shims or bronze washer...(exceptions?)
Twins use 14/19 pinion and gear and shims on prop
shaft and usually shim and bronze spacer above
drive shaft pinion.
Manufacturing process(1940's) at Kiekhaefer was not to today's close tolerances so in assembly process
gear case shims might have been selected from
several thicknesses OR ECK might have ruled
"one size fits all" I would suggest that shims might
best be selected by fit and try rather than just
putting in something matching original...
How to fit...end play of prop shaft and rotating prop shaft to see how much slop exists and arrive at a
compromise... bronze spacer above pinion gear
may have worn thinner so steel shim on top may need
to be thicker to reduce distance pinion can move
up and down on drive shaft...you may need to smooth
the bronze spacer also which will thin it more.
Getting gear lash right (or at least the best compromise) is worth doing. If gear teeth are already
chopped up keep your eyes open for a better set at
swap meets and online.
In my experience it is unusual to find the brass plug
in the gear case removable and it is NOT worth while
to risk damage to case and threads to attempt removal.
You (like me) will have to scoop grease directly into gearcase with water pump housing removed.
Few if any Michigan outboards have ever seen
salt water yet the brass plugs in gear case and
water jackets are usually so firmly corroded in
place they are best left alone. If you really need
to remove brass plug find a replacement first...
and be very carefull not to damage thread in the
aluminum gear case...use plumbers pipe dope on threads of replacement plug to allow future removal
without great efforts.
It is also important to coat prop shaft and drive shaft splines with grease before installing and
when servicing lower unit. Reduce wear and corrosion.
Grease should be designed for marine use...lithium
grease with corrosion inhibiter...read label when
in store to select best for purpose lube.
Louis

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

I'll probably go with McMaster Carr as I've dealt with them in the past. This week, I'll be waiting on parts...

Again, thanks for the info.

Re: Wizard WG4 Supertwin

Good Luck with your WG4. Please keep up with pictures...we all want to see how it comes out.
Louis

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